"Disclaimer Container" - Where Did My Post Go?

Talk about anything here as long as it is not against the rules.
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Butterbean
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Post by Butterbean » Tue Jan 05, 2016 20:34

I view this craft/art much like I do wine making. I know a lot of people who can make wine but very few who know how to make great wine consistently. The handful that do understand that wine making is more complicated than just adding stuff to a carboy and leaving the rest to luck.
Uxbal313
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Post by Uxbal313 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 02:32

redzed wrote:Salt in itself is not needed for fermentation which is what you stated in your previous post. And I understand that people have been been fermenting foods for millenia without understanding the science behind it. Now we have a whole body if scientific evidence that helps us better understand the fermentation process, so why not take advantage of that? People at one time lived in windy caves and had a life expectancy of 25. We have moved a kong way from that time. And here we making sausages, not kimchi, beer, miso, wine, soy sauce. Those are topics for another forum.
You are twisting what i said. I was talking about meat fermentation specifically and what i observed. I didn't go into minute details. I also never said fermentation does not occur without salt. For example raw milk turns to clabber milk as they call it without any additives or intervention. You just let nature do its thing. Beer (lambic beer also naturally fermented by bacteria) and wine fermented by yeast, no salt added also.

You simply assumed i don't know anything about this that is why i mentioned kimchi and those other stuff. Maybe because of your big ego. No we are making "fermented" sausages here and they are connected to each other whether you like it or not. Cheese making is the reason i started making fermented sausages. Also, you even go as far as saying the sausages i make are unsafe and i should not let others eat them just because i didn't do it your way. You come off as insular and pompous. I do take advantage of science, i just don't let it rule me. I focus mostly on the art itself.

Nothing is absolute even science.
redzed wrote: Thanks for the pics from the Philippines. I visited the country two times and the last time I was there we spent 4 days in your city of Cebu before taking the hovercraft ferry to Bohol and then on to Panglau to go scuba diving. Below are a couple of pics from a shopping trip to a local market.
You tried the local "fermented" sausages and other delicacies? I like eating those. It has that distinct rotten funk to it which is nice.
Tom
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Post by Tom » Wed Jan 06, 2016 03:40

Hello Uxbal313

You have some very interesting posts keep them coming. Don't get to excited about being treated as if you don't know anything; they do that to everyone. Most are well meaning but respond only to what you have questioned and not knowing your background. If it weren't for the boys in green there wouldn't be a forum. And yes certain members love to take things out of context, just ignore them and enjoy the forum. Tom
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Bob K
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Post by Bob K » Wed Jan 06, 2016 19:09

Beware of Foreigners bearing fruit.
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Wed Jan 06, 2016 19:09

Uxbal and Tom, I outlined why I think that it is not safe to ferment sausage using indigenous bacteria in a haphazard environment, leaving it open to contamination by a variety of pathogens that will make you seriously ill, and not just give you a case of the runs. Listeria monocytogenes, Salmonella, Escherichia coli, Clostridium botulinum, and Staphylococcus aureus are all life-threatening and real concerns. And yes, I am a convert to the practice of the hurdle technology and will critique anyone who promotes unsafe and slipshod practices. How you understand this as egoism is quite baffling. You are free of course to prepare and consume whatever you want, and you are welcome to post here about it. However, don't assume that everyone will agree with you or will not challenge you to a debate. This is a public forum and that is fine. You can write about your experiences, share your knowledge and defend your position in a rational and courteous manner. Just don't lower yourself to personal attacks if someone does not agree with you. Express yourself on the form in the same way as you would if the other person was sitting next to you.

The moderators of this form are not professionals, nor do they pretend to be. We are hobbyists, simply passionate about what we do, experiment and keep on learning from this forum and other sources. If we, or other forum members on occasion may have come across as condescending, believe me that was never the intent. We encourage discussion and questions at levels. At the same time I would like to reiterate, that we are here to share information and learn from each other. So if you posture as one who knows it all, take a moment and ask yourself why are you here?
NorthFork
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Post by NorthFork » Wed Jan 06, 2016 21:13

Well put Chris-
I've always tried to set a good example for others-but many times I've had to settle for just being a horrible warning!
Uxbal313
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Post by Uxbal313 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 00:07

redzed wrote:Uxbal and Tom, I outlined why I think that it is not safe to ferment sausage using indigenous bacteria in a haphazard environment, leaving it open to contamination by a variety of pathogens that will make you seriously ill, and not just give you a case of the runs. Listeria monocytogenes, Salmonella, Escherichia coli, Clostridium botulinum, and Staphylococcus aureus are all life-threatening and real concerns.
I never said its safe just so you and i are clear. Just like its not safe to eat meat, fat, butter, raw milk, drink alcohol and all the other crap so called experts tells us. People here are adults, they can decide for themselves.
redzed wrote: And yes, I am a convert to the practice of the hurdle technology and will critique anyone who promotes unsafe and slipshod practices. How you understand this as egoism is quite baffling.
I was never promoting anything to begin with. You are the one who loves promoting here in this forum about your perfect methods. You talk like you are on a high horse and think your methods are perfect and superior to everyone. I for one dont think like that. I respect other people's methods especially the traditional. If it works for them, more power to them. I am not gonna talk them down and tell them they dont know anything and they are going to poison themselves and other people. If all people just use standardized process, use cultures and super sanitary work place. Fermented foods like Cheese and dry cured sausages would be boring and generic as hell.

redzed wrote: You are free of course to prepare and consume whatever you want, and you are welcome to post here about it. However, don't assume that everyone will agree with you or will not challenge you to a debate. This is a public forum and that is fine. You can write about your experiences, share your knowledge and defend your position in a rational and courteous manner. Just don't lower yourself to personal attacks if someone does not agree with you. Express yourself on the form in the same way as you would if the other person was sitting next to you.
I never assumed anything. You are the one who is assuming. I know what a public forum is. I call a spade a spade. It is very likely you will get slapped or punched or worse where i live if you tell someone sitting beside you that the food he makes is poisonous and should not be shared.

redzed wrote: The moderators of this form are not professionals, nor do they pretend to be. We are hobbyists, simply passionate about what we do, experiment and keep on learning from this forum and other sources. If we, or other forum members on occasion may have come across as condescending, believe me that was never the intent. We encourage discussion and questions at levels. At the same time I would like to reiterate, that we are here to share information and learn from each other. So if you posture as one who knows it all, take a moment and ask yourself why are you here?
Share i did but that got your panties in a bunch. You should ask that question to yourself. I barely scratched the surface and i am still learning new and cool things about this craft.
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Thu Jan 07, 2016 03:06

I guess it's time to pitch this discussion into the dustbin. Uxballs is obviously a 12 year old troll or one angry and messed up dude.
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Post by martin » Thu Dec 29, 2016 19:42

Yes Bob, same thing I have with tomato, every year plant 20 plus variety, and still looking for this taste, when I was kid.
But you right, I gonna tray to be a close the taste which I remember, and make my own sausage.
Redzed why you want that book? You have more experience and knowledge then most folks from polish side WD, and this guy beiot.
Most recipe they use you have in Marianski book, They don't know about curing chamber, they don't make copa, sopresatta, salumi, prosciutto, You're making, and you know how to make stuff from many countries ,not only Poland. So I waiting for your book.
muxmun
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Post by muxmun » Fri Dec 30, 2016 02:11

And I too am waiting for your book! :grin:
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Fri Dec 30, 2016 09:06

Thanks for the vote of confidence guys, but don't hold your breath waiting for my book. I am only a hobbyist and continually learning. In fact, the more I learn about sausage making and the science and art of charcuterie, the more I realize how little I know. A book by me would not contribute or bring anything new in to the craft. The reason that I am here is to share the little that I do know and to guide forum members to resources that will help them learn or improve their sausage making skills. And the best part is that this forum gives us an opportunity to exchange information, learn from each other and and have a bit of friendly sausage banter. I also subscribe to the old saying "if you are going to do something, do it well".
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StefanS
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Post by StefanS » Fri Dec 30, 2016 20:16

martin wrote:most folks from polish side WD, and this guy beiot.

Most recipe they use you have in Marianski book, They don't know about curing chamber, they don't make copa, sopresatta, salumi, prosciutto
Are you sure??
martin
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Post by martin » Fri Dec 30, 2016 21:14

yes Stefan , pretty shure.
Can you show me any curing chamber, from polish WD, or maybe charcuterie made by beiot or paweljack?
How's about summer sausage , andouille,chorizo,brats,hungarian and other not polish?
Folks from polish WD make perfect polish sausages from them ,bible ' name nr16 , witch most of this recipe you can find in the Marianski book.
I my opinion charcuterie is art so sausage and meat processing, this is next level in making sausages, and prove real skills.
I only saw one of the very popular kind of charcuterie on polish side they call parm loin witch is salted pork lion with spices,and insta cure 1 , and hanging in kitchen in 2 weeks, some of the folks trying making salami without any bacto ferm , just using yogurts, some folks still smoke sausages without any cure ,just salt pepper and garlic , when somebody said something about botulism they said they know better.
Beiot I remember his first steps , or pictures on forum , hi starts learn from the forum couple years ago and now hi is sausages book writer ,with couple of years experience of sausages making by recipes from Internet .
That's only my opinion, and when Dziadek (hi is the real from school trade bucher , and sausage maker with many years experience)from polish side write the book I gone buy this book with pleasure.
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Missing Chuckwagon

Post by Shuswap » Tue Aug 29, 2017 15:07

Reading a thread from 2011 I came across this from Chuckwagon discussing adding wine to a sausage recipe:

"Heck no! It has always been my carefully considered presupposition, meticulously assiduous hypothesis, as well as my coldly calculated conjecture, that any liquid containing C2H5OH should be immediately and efficaciously propelled against the tonsils at speeds of up to .3084 meters per second in a constant aerated stream of less than 25.4 millimeters in diameter. Further, having had much practice, I have found the ideal vessel for the task to be an ordinary shot glass held in the right hand with slightly bent elbow. :shock:

My Best Wishes Sir, (hic) :oops: ...
Chuckwagon"

What an imagination :roll: :lol:
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Re: Missing Chuckwagon

Post by BriCan » Thu Aug 31, 2017 14:35

Shuswap wrote:Reading a thread from 2011 I came across this from Chuckwagon discussing adding wine to a sausage recipe:

"Heck no! It has always been my carefully considered presupposition, meticulously assiduous hypothesis, as well as my coldly calculated conjecture, that any liquid containing C2H5OH should be immediately and efficaciously propelled against the tonsils at speeds of up to .3084 meters per second in a constant aerated stream of less than 25.4 millimeters in diameter. Further, having had much practice, I have found the ideal vessel for the task to be an ordinary shot glass held in the right hand with slightly bent elbow. :shock:

My Best Wishes Sir, (hic) :oops: ...
Chuckwagon"

What an imagination :roll: :lol:
But clearly someone that did not know what he was on about at times ;)
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