Is what I did safe

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markjass
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Is what I did safe

Post by markjass » Sat May 05, 2012 15:06

I have made these sausages before and baked them in the oven at 100 degrees C for about 5 hours. I love them and decided to smoke them rather than bake them. I did not use a cure and thought I could smoke them until they were fully cooked (say about 5 hours). I borrowed a friends smoker for the job. He has only used the smoker for fish and did not have the instructions for the smoker. Anyway I smoked them in a Little Chief smoker. After 3 hours the internal temperature of the sausages hit 38 degrees C and I became concerned that they would never reached 77 d c and I could have a problem on my hands.

I did a bit of thinking and placed them in the oven at 100 d C. until the internal temperature hit 77 degrees C. That was about another 3 hours.

Questions:
Could the three hour time period in the smoker have resulted in causing food poisoning because of the low temperature?

Should I use this method again or should I think again?


Mark

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Post by Keymaster » Sat May 05, 2012 15:34

The Sausages were in a unsafe temperature zone for to long without using Cure #1. I would not consume them. When in doubt, throw them out !!
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Post by NorCal Kid » Sat May 05, 2012 15:54

Golden Rule fro the Marianski's:

"If it can`t be cured, don`t smoke it"

Also, same source:
"The optimal temperature range for the growth of botulinum bacteria is 78-95° F (26-35° C) and it significantly slows down at 118° F (48° C).
The conditions in a smoker are ideal for botulism spores to form. ("...these bacteria require a slightly acidic, oxygen free environment that is warm (40°-120°F) and moist, which is exactly what happens when we make our own meats, especially the smoked ones.")

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Post by ssorllih » Sat May 05, 2012 23:57

if botulinium has prospered in those sausages they will kill you dog just as surely as they would kill your children.
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Post by HamnCheese » Sun May 06, 2012 02:27

Good for you for asking the question! It isn't easy to think about throwing away the results of your labor, but throwing it away is easier than poisoning yourself and/or those you love.
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Post by Dumoine » Sun May 06, 2012 07:32

I am a little confused on why it is not necessary to add cure #1 to fish when smoking. Is soaking in a brine enough to make ithe fish safe from botulism? I also see brines for smoking chicken with no cure #1, is this safe?
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Post by nuynai » Sun May 06, 2012 15:04

Without further details, my estimate is that the temps are over 175 and higher, which is cooking not smoking in the danger zone. Also, you can cook fish and chicken at higher temps and apply smoke at the same time. The kit for smoking fish I use has cure in it.
I agree with NorCal- "If it can`t be cured, don`t smoke it"
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Post by two_MN_kids » Sun May 06, 2012 17:09

Dumoine,

Check out the bottom two paragraphs of this link; it might help you understand a bit more.

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/fish

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Post by markjass » Mon May 07, 2012 02:07

Thank you so much for your comments so far. As it was the first time I tried smoking sausages I only made 500g. That way meant that if it did not work out it would not be painful to throw away.
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Post by Baconologist » Mon May 07, 2012 02:56

Better safe than sorry!
Godspeed!

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Post by uwanna61 » Mon May 07, 2012 02:56

Remember our ancestors preserved meats of all types for hundreds of years using loads of salt, this is why they spent most of their day looking for a watering hole.
One question asked, can I cure meat without curing salts? Sure, but I would not recommend heating the product at a low temperature below 212 degrees. I would also like to add that curing salts (#1 sodium nitrate) or (#2 sodium nitrite & nitrate) will also add the desired color and longer storage capability to the finished product!

Mark
38 c which is 100.4 degrees Fahrenheit, too risky! I would recommend adding a little cure#1 to the next batch of sausage if you are attempting to smoke at low temps, just to be on the safe side!
Just a thought :roll:
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Post by markjass » Mon May 07, 2012 03:29

So my understanding is that it is safe to low temperature smoke the sausages for three hours (diameter is 6 cm) and then finish cooking them in the oven at 100 degrees until they hit the desired temperature as long as I add the cure #1.

This morning I picked up some cure #1 (I had to buy 1kg, but it was only 11 NZD). I am not working tomorrow so I will give it another go. It is late Autumn here and the forecast tomorrow is for a sunny day with a max of 16-19 degrees. So while I am clearing up the garden I will be smoking another batch.
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Post by Dumoine » Mon May 07, 2012 10:36

I was looking at the website justsmokedsalmon.com. There are dozens of brine recipes on this site and not one of them contain cure #1. By looking at this site it appears to me that most people who smoke fish do not use nitrates/nitrites. One recipe calls for smoking at 120F for 9-11 hours. The fish is brined for 12 hours in brine of just ½ cup of salt in ½ gallon of dole pine-orange banana juice. That is about a 25 degree brine. This seems risky to me; but why is it that we do not hear of people dying from the smoked fish that they eat?
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