Page 40 of 46

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 04:25
by Gulyás
Thank you C.W.

Looks like the only different between the fresh, and the smoked is the 2,7 gr. of cure/nitrite.
The meat is going to be darker. And after smoking, even darker.

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 15:59
by grasshopper
even though the sausage has been cured, it doesn't mean that it will remain edible outside the refrigerator. This remains a perishable product and must be refrigerated and used within a few days, or frozen until you are ready to grill in the near future.
Need some school housing and or hand holding. I have made 2 different chorizos. To me the kabanosy (cactus jack) is still the top winner. We let it bloom at room temp for three days.I pull the kabanosy out of the fridge and have it in the truck when I have to deliver a job. Yesterday I forgot! So when I stopped to get fuel, I bought a beef stick. I will never never do that again. Big difference from what you learn here. It was dry crumbly and tasted awful. I smoked the chorizo and brought to 150 IT temp and let it bloom for three days. Dumb QUESTION If it has cure #1 in it and smoked. You can make a meat stick out of any recipe.? I thought my chorizo could be a meat stick. Really not understanding.

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 18:12
by el Ducko
..."blue apricot"...? :roll: I warned you about what you use to smoke these things, CW. Aiyee!

For my chorizo offering, see the picture in the photo thread. I stuffed a kilo for smoking, plus made another 400 grams or so (partial kilo package of 80/20 pork mix) for use as fresh sausage. ("...part of 'this healthy breakfast.' " ) The to-be-smoked is hanging in the refrigerator, drying out just a bit. mesquite chips ready, and I think I've got this new smoker figured out as to how to get lower temperatures. That, or give Space-X a little competition in the low Earth orbit marketplace. when I clean it up a little. It's got a hot plate, a ten-foot section of gutter, a cardboard box, double venturis, an air pump, everything but Moon hubcaps. Sanford and Son would be proud. ...maybe even tightwad enough for Ross (but we'll see!)

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 18:28
by el Ducko
Here's my Project B contribution:
along with the "Russ-N-Ross Ramrod" used to stuff the hog casing. What you see is a one kilogram batch of Chorizo Recipe 2 in hog casing, plus an extra 400 grams (partial package of 80/20 pork mix) to be retained as fresh sausage, even though cured. It's in convenient 4-ounce fold-top sandwich bags, and will be stored in a quart freezer bag until needed., tomorrow morning, right? :lol:

The stuffed sausage is now hanging in the refrigerator to dry out a bit and maybe season a little better. You'll probably find that there's plenty of moisture in yours, too, due to the amount of vinegar in the recipe. Waiting a bit gives the water the opportunity to evaporate a bit, plus allows the meat to thoroughly season. I'll smoke it in a few days, using Chuckwagon's instructions.

Ramrod users will note two additions: one is a 5/8" or so long section of 2" PVC pipe, used as a spacer on the back end of the longer 2" pipe so the apparatus doesn't blow out from the pressure. The spacer keeps the main 2" tube from moving back. The other new item is a circle of plastic shelf protector sheet, which forms a gasket between the 2" pipe and the pusher cap. Put the 2" tube down on the plastic, circle with a marks-a-lot or other pen, then cut outside the circle so as to leave a 1/2" or more width of material to form the seal. These things get soiled during use, so cut a new one as you need it and throw the old one away after each stuffing session.

Meanwhile, I felt obligated to eat a bit of that delicious csabaii, just to make a bit of room in the refrigerator.
(Sigh.) The sacrifices one must make, these days...

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 20:20
by el Ducko
grasshopper wrote:
...I thought my chorizo could be a meat stick. Really not understanding.
I think you'll find that chorizo is best eaten as a cooking ingredient, :idea: rather than as a snack. The smoked version is especially good as a seasoning. In contrast with much of the German/Polish/Hungarian/etc. school of thought, chorizo is often used in cooking but seldom eaten by itself. (I don't know why you couldn't, but...)

This isn't necessarily true of Central and South American chorizos- - my "Chorizo Corner" post will give you, shortly, some options from Argentina that are eaten on a bun. ...but don't you dare eat the fresh Mexican chorizo in Project B without cooking it. :razz: Okay?

That said, Señor Chuckwagon has something up his sleeve which sounds both delicious and infectious (being bacteria-based). ...also beyond my experience. ...perhaps beyond all human understanding. (Living at high altitude sometimes makes you that way, you know.) "Stay tuned..."

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 21:26
by grasshopper
Not to be a pain in the butt. I left the chorizo out to bloom for three days and they dried up like a meat stick. Not bad tasting at all, really good. I am trying to really understand blooming and bacteria. If it has cure 1 and smoked/cooked to 150 degrees, it would be safe to eat. I will try the chorizo in my pasta and gumbo for flavor.

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 22:30
by Dudley
OK I am still with the program but am busy filling request from friends for kabanosy, breakfast sausage and even some fresh chorizo.

But I am a little confused about chorizo. the recipe calls for "10.6 gm non-iodized salt (reduce if using cure) " reduce by how much ? by the amount of cure ?
also if cure is a option, can we use it in the fresh without smoking?

after reading Chuckwagons explanation of bacteria and the harm of to much cure, i'm starting to wonder if I should just quit eating.

All joking aside this is very educational and much appreciated.

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 22:40
by Gulyás
Hi Dudley

Don't use cure in fresh sausage. It's better if you use sea salt, or something like that.
I use Morton kosher salt, it doesn't have all the junk in it like the table salt has.
If you reduce the salt because of cure, its by the amount of cure.

If you quit eating, you might live forever, but my opinion is, that you'll be sorry for it. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 04:48
by el Ducko
Dudley wrote:...But I am a little confused about chorizo. the recipe calls for "10.6 gm non-iodized salt (reduce if using cure) " reduce by how much ? by the amount of cure ?
also if cure is a option, can we use it in the fresh without smoking?
My intent was to keep the salt low because several family members are salt-sensitive. If your family is that way too, fiddle with salt content. Otherwise, just add as shown in the recipe.

You'll read in the sausage literature that around 2% salt is suggested and around 3% is the maximum, at which point it's too salty. Some people suggest keeping the salt content high. At that level, though, there is no preservative-related reason to keep high salt content unless you like it. You should feel free to adjust salt amount if you want.

It's fine to make a big batch with cure in it and split it, saving some for fresh sausage and some for smoking. It's NOT fine to make a batch without cure and then smoke it. Cure won't hurt fresh sausage. In fact, it sounds so beneficial that... (Well, read Stan's book, or Chuckwagon's writing.)

Like Gulyas, I use sea salt for my non-iodized needs. In fact, I use iodized sea salt for our regular salt needs too. We pick up the Hain brand (they market both types) at health food stores, and it's starting to appear in regular grocery stores as well.

Live long and prosper. :mrgreen:

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 05:03
by ssorllih
The "Junk" in table salt is yellow prusate of soda to prevent caking. And for those of you too young to remember homes without air conditioning you missed all of the joys of repulverizing the salt when you need to fill the shakers.

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 07:58
by Chuckwagon
Grasshopper, you wrote:
...when I stopped to get fuel, I bought a beef stick. I will never never do that again. Big difference from what you learn here. It was dry crumbly and tasted awful.
Now you know the reason that Wedliny Domowe even exists. A few years back, some of the old master craftsmen in Poland decided that soon the secrets of making decent sausage would be lost if they didn`t do something about it. They formed WD and it took off like a rocket. In Europe, the Polish site is huge. Here in the English-speaking countries, we are only two years old but growing. People are always searching for the free knowledge we offer, especially pertaining to fermented sausages.

You`re right about making a meat "stick" from any recipe. If it is dried so bacteria is inhibited or if a sausage is introduced to a lactic acid bacteria so that it becomes acidic enough to discourage the growth of bacteria, it may be safely stored in lower temperatures in dry conditions. However, many people re-introduce it to an atmosphere of higher humidity and warmer temperatures while storing it. This can unintentionally re-introduce pathogenic bacteria.

As we take our chorizo recipe one more notch up the scale, we`ll make a dried, tangy, semi-dry-cured version of the stuff. We`ll use a little Bactoferm LHP to quickly increase the acidity to a safe point in merely 2 days. I plan to caution folks about re-introducing bacteria into a sausage at this point. Great question ol` pard. I hope this clears it up a little.

El Duck, you wrote: mesquite chips ready
I know your favorite mesquite is indigenous to Texas, but it`s a mighty harsh smoke. I know folks who will use it only for beef steaks. They wouldn`t even think about smoking pork in it, let alone sausage of any type. Have you tried hickory for pork or alder for fowl? I`m not knocking your favorite wood, because I use it occasionally too. Just wondering if you would try a less harsh smoke for a good sausage.

You also wrote:
...Cure won't hurt fresh sausage. In fact, it sounds so beneficial that... (Well, read Stan's book, or Chuckwagon's writing.)
That is correct Duckman! In fact, I just made ten pounds of fresh pork sausage to which I added 2 level teaspoons of Cure #1. Why? Remember what nitrite does to a fresh pork leg. It turns it into ham. Once in a while, I like a fresh sausage that has been "treated" to totally change the flavor of the meat. (I have a favorite sausage with a truckload of garlic and onion in it.) With a bit of nitrite added, the flavor is superb.

Along the same lines, I always prefer to add sodium nitrite (Cure #1) to a brining solution while I "cure" fresh pork ribs. The nitrite changes the meat into ham prior to barbecuing. My guests just rave about them. (However, because the meat is not actually that from the rear leg, it doesn`t taste like exactly like ham).

Best Wishes,

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 15:51
by grasshopper
THANK YOU CW! That cleared it up. A recipe is one thing, but knowledge of handling bacteria and fermentation is a must in my mind. Please keep on hammering it home. Northern tool has a kitchner grinder on sale 1/2 hp 300 watt for $99.99. Santa is coming early for me. Goodbye kitchen aid, although that's what got me here. Thanks again CW.

My chorizo

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 19:19
by redzed
I finished with the fresh and smoked chorizo. Messed up up with the smoked as I took it over 155, maybe even 160. I was smoking it together 5kg of turkey sausage and had it stuck for a long time. The turkey was stuck at 142 and chorizo at 125. I had the probe in one of the turkey sausages and when it came to 151, the chorizo was even higher.

I added nitite to the whole batch, ground and mixed the meat the day before and stuffed and smoked the next day. I cut back on the garlic to six cloves for the 2kg. batch, since I have have some powerful home grown stuff that normally one clove is equal to four of the Chinese supermarket variety. The fresh chillies that I displayed earlier were dehydrated and ground along with some chili arbol that I purchased in California a couple of years ago. Used six table spoons of the mix.

As far as the flavour, I think everything worked out. I fried the stuffer leftovers with some eggs and it tasted good, enough heat anyway. The smoked sausage actually could have had more chilis and maybe a bit more salt. I gave Ducko's black bean soup recipe to my wife and she will craft it. ( That is as soon as we finish the borscht.)

The addition of the vinegar, and I used the exact amount specified, made the mixture quite wet and it never did get to that sticky consistency that you normally achieve with proper mixing. The fact that the meat did not hold together is evident in the pic of the smoked chorizo. It might be that I did not dry it long enough before smoking or the chemistry of the vinegar, which I never used in sausage before.

Sausage by Starlight

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 03:30
by el Ducko
Sausage by Starlight

Smoked chorizo, our project, in ice bath at last,
Five hours later. Seemed longer. Not bad.
New smoker on shake-down, its varied tasks passed
Sans contrioller, with hot plate, procedure now had.

With Project "B" proceeding, directions I see- -
Moonlight, meat smoker, mosquitoes, and me.

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 04:35
by Chuckwagon
Topic Split 10.21.12@21:29 by CW - See: 'Old Timers "Project B" Philosophical Chatter' here: