Binder for Smoked German Bologna

Post Reply
Rick
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 00:09
Location: Rockford, MI

Binder for Smoked German Bologna

Post by Rick » Mon Oct 13, 2014 22:10

I have a pre-mixed spice package for a smoked German Bologna from PS Seasonings that calls for 1 1/2 cups of their binder flour, https://www.psseasoning.com/index.cfm/a ... ct_id/2092
which contains wheat, barley,oat and rye flour.

I currently have soy concentrate and dry milk powder both from BP on hand. I'm thinking that this binder flour is nothing more than soy concentrate, but I'm not sure if all these listed flours are also found in soy concentrate.

Now just to make things a tad bit more complicated, I also have some of BP Special Binder which only requires 1 oz. per 12 1/2 lbs. of meat. This is a lot less than the 1 1/2 cups the recipe calls for.

I like the thought of the 1 oz. of Special Binder, as I think less binders are better for taste. Yet I'm not sure as to even what the BP Special Binder is that it uses so much less than other binders?

I'd like to request a little help in untangling this issue of binders and what is used when.

Many thanks.

Rick
User avatar
Bob K
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2102
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 15:16
Location: Northwest Ct

Post by Bob K » Mon Oct 13, 2014 22:57

Rick-
The BP special binder is a phosphate blend (read the ingredients if listed) they help to retain water and dissolve proteins. You can also google amesphos for more info. Link:
http://store.theingredientstore.com/amesphos.aspx
The others are fillers (also called binders) which also help in retaining water. But they can effect the flavor.

Most recipes calling for them will use one or the other type, not both.

The blend from PS Seasonings is probably their proprietary blend. Soy protein (concentrate) is just an all soy product
Rick
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 00:09
Location: Rockford, MI

Post by Rick » Mon Oct 13, 2014 23:40

Thank you Bob for the clarification. If I may, I see by a Poli recipe that calls for a whey protein isolate. I've read on this forum about a soy protein isolate.

So what is the difference between the two? I couldn't find a source of supply for the whey protein isolate Len calls for in his wiener recipe.
User avatar
Bob K
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2102
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 15:16
Location: Northwest Ct

Post by Bob K » Tue Oct 14, 2014 02:57

Soy protein is extracted from soy and whey protein from milk.

Whey protein (isolate) is available at health food stores
User avatar
redzed
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3352
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 06:29
Location: Vancouver Island

Post by redzed » Tue Oct 14, 2014 05:02

Just to add to Bob's reply, whey protein isolate forms a gel in the sausage thus giving a better mouth feel. For this reason it works well with low fat sausages. The stuff is sold at health food stores because body builders consume huge quantities of it. But, it's not cheap!

As as far as your German Bologna, go ahead and use what you have. I'm sure that either the soy or milk powder will work well. And, we want pictures!
lrdeer
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 08:58
Location: Melbourne

Post by lrdeer » Tue Oct 14, 2014 09:27

Rick, I have been making German Bologna for around 10 years now (always from fresh venison), I use the recipe from the Rytek Kutas Sausage making book, the recipe uses non fat dry milk powder, I use full cream milk powder, the result is a fine tasting smoked sausage that I highly recommend, keeping it simple is my theory.
Rick
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 00:09
Location: Rockford, MI

Post by Rick » Tue Oct 14, 2014 14:26

Thanks Redzed and Irdeer.

There seems to be no fewer than a dozen additives one can use, and I can't help think that number can't be reduced due to redundancy. Shoot we haven't even mentioned corn syrup solids and what they're characteristics are!

Redzed, I'd love to post pics too, as I know you folks have asked before, but the process seems a little over whelming, but I'll look into it again.

Rick
Cabonaia
Forum Enthusiast
Forum Enthusiast
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 02:07
Location: Morgan Hill, CA

Post by Cabonaia » Sat Oct 18, 2014 02:48

Hi gang - I'm late to this conversation but bologna and other lunch meats are close to my heart (no medical puns intended :mrgreen: ) so I'll weigh in with a perspective. You can make all of these products without soy, milk powder, phosphates, etc. if you want to. Obviously for generations people did this. If you want to imitate commercial products you will need them. This is not to denigrate commercial products, which can be absolutely excellent. That said, I have used nonfat milk powder and not used it, and didn't notice a qualitative difference. So I now skip it. I don't use any "fillers" at all, and my bologna, mortadella, and cotto salami have come out great. They have a somewhat different texture than what you get at a deli, but IMHO it's not an inferior texture, and they taste worlds better. All of which is to say: these are not essential ingredients. You will definitely not improve the flavor of your lunch meats with them, but dilute it or even interfere with it to some degree. But you may achieve a texture more to your liking. It's simple to leave them out if you want to - you just leave them out and keep everything else the same. I like Poli's recipes and have used them many times. I simply leave out the fillers/binders. (I also up the salt...he goes with a low level for my tastes.)

Cheers!
Jeff
Post Reply