pH rise during fermentation

Jja · Post by **Jja** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 19:09

I mixed up a batch of landjaeger(t-spx) and stuffed it to 19mm casings. The pH did the lag and drop to 5.3 as expected. What I'm not completey sure about is the pH rose to 5.5 before the 4 days were done.
I have a digital pH probe and a device to record pH over time. I don't seem to find any pH curves that match what is happening to mine in any literature from Hansen or in marianski's book. They show pH low for a long time before it begins to rise.
Color and texture are what I expected, smell is not 'off'. Temp fluctuates between 66 and 71 in my box.
I'm going ahead with drying today.
Any thoughts?

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 21:21

Jja, you wrote:

What I'm not completey sure about is the pH rose to 5.5 before the 4 days were done.

Fast acidification is actually quite common. It may occur when the temperature and/or humidity is higher than normal, or even contains an excess of water in the formulation. Was the product delayed entering the curing chamber for any reason? Sometimes if the meat is too lean, rapid acidification can take place also. Was your sausage`s diameter any smaller than usual when processed it at high humidity? Was the initial meat pH lower than normal? Did you use the same carbohydrate sugar as you have in the past? These subtle little reasons can gang up on you. Good luck pal!

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Jja · Post by **Jja** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 02:03

I suspected one of the additives, so I added caraway, nutmeg and corriander to small samples of ground pork with a small pinch of TSPX and sugar. They all pH dropped, but the caraway started to rise . I bought a new jar of caraway and repeated. pH dropped and stayed at 5.2. I did another batch 3.9Kg and the stable pH result was repeated.
I have no explanation as to what happened to my caraway seeds, but there may be a contaminant that never shows up when I used them to bake. I found it interesting none of my spices show an expiration date, and only a few had a best used by date. Most of them were well past the best date. I will probably replace all my meat spices with fresh before the next batch.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 02:44

Jja, you wrote:

I will probably replace all my meat spices with fresh before the next batch.

Always a good idea! You would be surprised at how many people use spices that have been lying around for ten years or more!

No kidding. If it's six months old... toss it!
Thanks for the update. Are there any other indications that we should take into account, such as mushy texture, off color, too much moisture loss, or not enough moisture loss? You indicated a contaminant. When this occurs, it often promotes then heightens an "off" flavor. Keep in touch and let us know what happens.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Jja · Post by **Jja** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 03:13

I threw away most of the original batch. As in my first post, no off odor, or color or texture at that time.
I put a few sticks in my curing chamber and had a mold/bacterial growth beginning rather quickly. I washed with vinegar solution and it reappeared making me believe it was bacterial. Even a cold smoke didnt deter whatever was growing.
I did not track moisture.
I didnt venture more than chewing and spitting a bit to know I wasnt eating any.
The dogs liked them and theyre still barking

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 04:49

What color mold?

Jja · Post by **Jja** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 02:12

whiteish , but wetter and not as white as what usually shows up when I use an innoculant on salami.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 06:24

Hi Jja,
Molds most often found on meat are Alternaria, Aspergillus, Botrytis, Cladosporium, Fusarium, Geotrichum, Monilia, Manoscus, Mortierella, Mucor, Neurospora, Oidium, Oosproa, Penicillium, Rhizopus and Thamnidium. Of course, these molds can also be found on many other foods as well. Of these, the white and powdery penicillium nalgiovense is recommended for meat. I would be suspicious of "wet" and gray-colored mold just as you have been. Best to chuck it and be safe using a culture of "known" origin.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Jja · Post by **Jja** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 14:26

The tspx recipe posted has a long fermentation, much longer than what my meter shows it takes to get a pH drop.
Is there a good reason to extend fermentation after a pH drop below 5.3 and holding steady? I think the humidity and low air flow in my fermentation box are contributing to the growth of whatever grew on my meat. After my pH meter shows a steady low pH isnt the carbohydrate exhausted and lactic acid done being produced? and then just go straight to cure/smoke?

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:04

After my pH meter shows a steady low pH isnt the carbohydrate exhausted and lactic acid done being produced? and then just go straight to cure/smoke?

That is correct Jja. Once in a while you will see someone add sugar to the recipe just to extend the development of the lactic acid.
The gray, wet is anyone's guess. We live in a microbial world. Shucks, I once produced a batch of salami that became covered with every color in the rainbow. The purple-green ones made good target practice.

Have you got any photos of your good stuff Jja?

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Baconologist · Post by **Baconologist** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 16:04

Jja wrote:The tspx recipe posted has a long fermentation, much longer than what my meter shows it takes to get a pH drop.
Is there a good reason to extend fermentation after a pH drop below 5.3 and holding steady?

Yes, there's a VERY important reason to extend the fermentation beyond the drop in pH....flavor development!
Give the staphylococci in T-SPX time to carry-out its flavor-forming activities.

Jja · Post by **Jja** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 00:18

thanks for the comments. I dug out my Marianski book and found, pg 31 "The sausage pH, not the time, is gthe factor that determines when fermentation is completed." he immediately goes into a discussion of how molds and yeasts cause an increase in pH and contribute to milder flavor.
Also found a comment on increased growth of non desireable microbial growth with too little air flow while fermenting.
I need to change my fermentation chamber to increase air flow and go by pH.

Baconologist, I think the drying phase will provide the time for flavor development.

Jja · Post by **Jja** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 00:19

Chuckwagon, I'll work on a few photo's

Baconologist · Post by **Baconologist** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 01:51

I was only relaying advice I received from the folks at Hansen who told me that the staph is most effective developing flavor at the recommended fermentation temperature of no more than 75 degrees F, thus, they suggested extending the fermentation period.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 08:07

Hi Jja, you ol' salty dog! Great observation. Lots of people, most in fact, believe it is the length of time that determines the completion of the fermentation step. It only stands to reason that when the sugar is used up, the fermentation will cease.

If allowed more time, yeasts and molds will develop and an opposite reaction will occur - that of "reverse fermentation", in which the yeasts and molds will utilize and partially deplete some of the lactic acid that the lactobacilli or pediococci worked so hard to produce.

This will lower the acidity, increasing the pH. This produces a more mild, southern European flavor and some experienced salami makers follow this step just to get that mild flavor.

Staphylococcus carnosus and staphylococcus xylosus are color and flavor forming bacteria (Staphylococcaceae family) and along with micrococcaceae, they are responsible for reaction with oxygen and nitrate. The optimum temperature of both is 86°F and the salt limit is 16% and 15% respectively. Note that micrococcus is now called kocuria and it is less tolerant of salt than staphylococcus spp. They are anaerobic and possess the nitrate reductase enzyme catalase (protects against oxygen and delays the rancidity of fat). Staphylococcus also contribute to proteolytic break down into free amino acids, and lipolytic break down into free fatty acids.

Have you got one of the Hanna 991 Series portable meters? ALL nice little machines eh?
Keep up the good work Jja. And post a few photos when you can. We'd surely be interested in having a look. Sounds like you are making a top quality fermented product.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon