Drying and storage times

checkerfred
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Drying and storage times

Post by checkerfred » Fri Mar 28, 2014 04:45

How long will a cooked smoked sausage last in the fridge?

What about cooked fermented sausages?

How long is too long to dry/shrink down for semi dry type sausages?

I've stored some in paper bags and some I vacuum packed.

I made some venison pepperoni and stored it in paper bags. Prob 1 inch in diameter. I left it in the fridge at about 42 degrees and 70 down to 50% humidity for about 6 1/2 to 7 weeks.... I actually forgot about it. Took it out today and it had the prettiest dark red color. It was somewhat hard but uniform throughout. I sliced some thin and the taste was amazing. Totally different than when I first smoked it. I had fermented and then smoked to an internal temp of 158
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Post by checkerfred » Sat Mar 29, 2014 17:24

Anyone?
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Chuckwagon
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Post by Chuckwagon » Sun Mar 30, 2014 00:41

Checkerfred, you wrote:
How long will a cooked smoked sausage last in the fridge?
Certainly simply cooking the sausage extends its life somewhat as many microorganisms are destroyed by heat. The destruction of spoilage bacteria such as brochotrix thermophacta allow the sausage to be safely stored refrigerated for a week or more without drastic deterioration in flavor or texture. However, like any food in nature, your sausage begins to decompose and eventually putresce the minute it is made. We simply safely preserve it the best we are able for a relatively unspecific amount of time. Of course, each sausage will have its own rate of degradation and long before it becomes inedible for safety reasons, it will surrender its flavor and texture.
What about cooked fermented sausages?
Fermented type sausages when air-dried below Aw 0.85 have two things going for it and lasts much longer. First, a culture of lactic acid-producing beneficial bacteria render pathogenic bacteria harmless. Next, as the sausage dries, the moisture no longer nourishes pathogenic bacteria and it becomes safe to eat even without having been cooked. Air-dried sausages may be safely stored for months, depending upon the type of sausage and how much moisture was left behind.
How long is too long to dry/shrink down for semi dry type sausages?
Depends upon where it is drying and the thickness of the sausage. In a moist storage chamber? In a refrigerator "crisper"? On the countertop? All have different moisture levels in the air (relative humidity). Kabanosy in half-inch collagen casings take about 5 days on a countertop. However, this is not the safest place to dry your sausage. In a paper bag in the refrigerator is fine but might take a week or more until it firms up inside. Vacuum packed, it will not continue to dry. It will remain moist until opened. Dry it first (to about 70% yield), then vacuum pack it.
I've stored some in paper bags and some I vacuum packed.
I made some venison pepperoni and stored it in paper bags. Prob 1 inch in diameter. I left it in the fridge at about 42 degrees and 70 down to 50% humidity for about 6 1/2 to 7 weeks.... I actually forgot about it. Took it out today and it had the prettiest dark red color. It was somewhat hard but uniform throughout. I sliced some thin and the taste was amazing. Totally different than when I first smoked it. I had fermented and then smoked to an internal temp of 158
Now you know what "semi-dry cured" sausage tastes like. This is a terrific method for making Landjaeger Sausage.

Hope this helps pal. Rattle my chain if you still have questions. I don`t have all the answers, but I DO make a hellofa sourdough biscuit! :wink:

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Last edited by Chuckwagon on Sun Mar 30, 2014 05:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Carpster » Sun Mar 30, 2014 02:33

Of course, each sausage will have its own rate of degradation and long before it becomes inedible for safety reasons, it will surrender its flavor and texture.
CW, same question, but please answer for someone with a head like a goat :mrgreen: ....I have been wanting to ask the same question. So if you can stomach the semi-dry cured sausage left in the icebox it is safe to eat? Sometimes I like it really dry and slice thin and often woundered at what point would the sausage make me sick (or a test subject). :shock:

Thanks Steve.
Last edited by Carpster on Sun Mar 30, 2014 05:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Chuckwagon » Sun Mar 30, 2014 05:08

Steve, that`s a great question. The answer is yes, it is safe to eat as far as pathogenic bacteria "curing" is concerned. However, there are other "spoilage bacteria" issues. Eventually, other microorganisms will begin to compromise and degrade the meat. However, even though a spoilage bacterium may make you sick, it will rarely kill you.

Think of the "hurdles" as they are called. The first thing we must consider in pork sausage is any possibility of Trichinella Spiralis in the meat. This is a parasitic roundworm whose larval form may be present in the flesh of pork or wild game and its painful infection is known as trichinosis. It is not a bacteria and it`s not a mold with toxic spores. Nor is it a fungi. It`s a microscopic danged worm that is miserable when it penetrates the gut and gets into muscle. The medications mebendazole or albendazole may be used to treat infections in the intestines, although once the larvae have invaded the muscles, there is no specific treatment for trichinosis and the cysts remain viable for years. How do we protect ourselves from infection of trichinae? By cooking the meat to a safe temperature. Trichinella Spiralis in meat is destroyed at 137°F. Steve, if you don`t know much about the infection or how to destroy the organism, please click on this link http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=4808 and read my article about Trichinella Spiralis.

One more thing about this nasty worm. Remember, once the larvae have invaded the muscles, there is no specific treatment for trichinosis, and the cysts remain viable for years. Now, why would anyone take a chance by "fudging" on the rules. Here`s my point...You would be surprised at just how many people believe that simple freezing will destroy trichinella spiralis. Actually, the majority of people believe it, and that frightens me. I often think of the folks who shoot wild pigs or javelinas and think simply freezing the carcass will take care of trichinella spiralis. It absolutely will not! In fact, The Division of Infectious Disease, Department of Medicine, at Massachusetts General Hospital has concluded that "Smoking, salting, or drying meat are not reliable methods of killing the organism that causes this infection". Further, "Only freezing at subzero temperatures (Fahrenheit) for 3 to 4 weeks will kill the organism". If folks ever gazed into a microscope and saw the round nematode worm embedded far into human muscle tissue, they would surely think twice about proper sub-zero temperatures. However, most people do not have the means of freezing meat at these cryogenic temperatures - thus, they take the chance.

The next "hurdle" deals with the killer bacterium called Clostridium Botulinum. It is a pathogenic bacterium and although it is relatively uncommon, it is deadly. Sodium nitrite is a salt and an anti-oxidant used to cure meats, serving a vital public health function as it blocks the growth of Clostridium Botulinum and helps to prevent spoilage. Nitrite also gives cured meats their characteristic color and flavor. In addition, USDA sponsored research indicates that nitrite can help prevent the growth of Listeria monocytogenes, an environmental bacterium that can cause illness in some at-risk populations. In cured-smoked-cooked sausage, the addition of sodium nitrite acts immediately and cures meat in a very short period of time. However, in air-dried sausages, sodium nitrite`s chemical cousin (sodium nitrate) is used as it breaks down over a period of time into "nitrite" and finally nitric oxide - the actual curing agent.

Another way to destroy the bacteria it is to dry up its source of available water. (Aw) When a sausage is dried to Aw 0.85 or lower, it is considered safe to eat although the meat may not have even been cooked. Now, you are probably wondering how we make salami from raw, uncooked pork without the threat of Trichinella spiralis. The answer is we must use "certified" pork - meat that has been deeply frozen below zero for a specified period of time.

Finally, we may use acidity to help destroy pathogenic bacteria. In preserving sausage, we simply introduce a lactic acid-producing bacteria such as lactobacillus or pediococcus. Bacteria cannot tolerate acidic environments. Of course, acidity affects flavor and the addition of an acid is not just a simple solution for every type of meat. Yet, without lactic acid - producing bacteria, we wouldn`t have wonderful, tangy, fermented type sausage.

If you would like to read more about clostridium botulinum in meat, please click on these links:
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=6634 and http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=4903&start=0

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by el Ducko » Sun Mar 30, 2014 05:43

Folks, here's a classic illustration of why I find the Wedliny Domowe forum website to be so valuable. People not only ask the right questions, but there is nearly always someone out there (or in there, in Chuckwagon's case) who has good answers.

Sometimes it's something new, but often it's reinforcement of old topics with a new angle on 'em. It's not a bunch of blather, it's good, tightly-written information. (...plus a bit of "Tall Tales" blather, sometimes, but that makes it more enjoyable.)(...I hope.) ...no pseudo-expert pop-culture foodies here- - we all are seriously trying to learn something and improve ourselves and our technique.

So, here's to "the W D Brand," but more importantly, here's to the participants who make this forum great. Like "the man" said, "there are no stupid questions..." ...and a lot of really good, useful answers.
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Post by Chuckwagon » Mon Mar 31, 2014 03:54

Wow Duck! That touched my heart. Could it be that you`re not such a screwball, quacking, menace after all? The perverted pile of plumage I`ve always thought... geeeze, perhaps I`ve been just a little tough on...
What? What am I sayin`? What am I thinkin`? Now get back in line, Duck! I must have all my ducks in a row!
Yup, I reckon "them there" words of yers` are mighty fine! I am in your gratitude. Now... get back to normal! Can I hold you under water for five or six minutes?
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
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Post by psykobillys » Mon Aug 11, 2014 04:23

another quick question in reviving this topic -

i understand the spoilage and pathogenic issues, but what about simply "edible quality"? what's the best way to store a dried fermented sausage such as sopressata? assuming you have no room in the cave, but perhaps room in the freezer or refrigerator, and perhaps access to a vacuum sealer, which methods are ideal? i know i've seen some "natural" sausages in stores in bags at room temp...

so what are the ideal routes for long-term (or semi long-term) storage of these types of sausages?
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Post by Cabonaia » Mon Aug 11, 2014 04:54

Yeah! I'll add to this great question another one that's been on my mind. Anyone every try to rehydrate a piece of cured meat that's been losing moisture in the fridge for way too long? I've got a piece of coppa that's hard as a rock. In fact, it looks like a rock. It's still good as in not spoiled, but even if I slice it thin as paper it's way too salty. I'm going to give it a soak - nothing to lose - but am wondering if anyone has tried that and what results they got. Works for bacon....
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Post by Chuckwagon » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:35

Guys, these fermented products are made for several different reasons. First of all, the flavor (with characteristic "tang" is incredible). We all know that. Second, the process of "air drying" make it possible to store this type of meat outside the refrigerator (the ONLY type of meat safe to do so). Once the meat loses moisture and has dried to a point of Aw 0.85 or less... and/or contains the acidity of lactic acid bacteria where the pH drops, increasing the acidity to pH 5.1 or more, the product is safe to store outside the refrigerator and it's keeping quality is much longer. Not indefinite... just longer! The stuff just won't last forever and further drying is out of the question unless you wish to break a tooth. The Cubans slow the process of further drying by storing the meat in jars of lard. Freezing is not an option if you wish to have "original" quality. There just comes a point where it has to be eaten or tossed. Frankly, I've never had the problem as all the goodies are soon gobbled up and more are made all in good time. Long term storage on fermented meats? :roll: Uhhh... not such a great idea. It has already had its life prolonged - it's time to eat it and make some more! :wink:

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by Bob K » Mon Aug 11, 2014 15:58

Well if you store it in your cave/curing chamber or the open air it will continue to dry.

Best method I have found is vacuum sealed in the fridge. The longest we have made it is 6 months for pepperoni and sopressata which I use for Pizza. The taste actually improves with age.
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Post by ursula » Wed Aug 13, 2014 05:15

My ten salamis are now pretty much ready for a taste test, and then I'll have to vacseal them and stick them in the fridge. A question for the more experienced: Should the fibrous casings be removed before vacsealing? I seem to remember someone commenting that they can get slimy. ?? Also will vacsealing completely stop them drying out or will the moisture in the salami be redistributed and affect the taste of the product?
Just a bit over-enthusiastic in my salami venture last time - will never keep up with the eating, even gifting it!!
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Post by redzed » Wed Aug 13, 2014 07:26

While there will be some degregation in quality and flavour, sometimes you have no choice but to freeze. I have vac packed frozen salami and solid meat cuts in both ways, that is with and without casings, and frankly, have not tasted any difference. In fact, I have a bunch of frozen stuff in my cooler in the back of my truck as we make our way east. Damm hot though, temp today was 34 in the mountains at elevations of over 1200 m.
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Post by oneills » Wed Aug 13, 2014 08:20

I just clean mine up and vac pack with the casing on and put them in a fridge. Ive still got some of last years left over and they keep getting better with age.
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Post by crustyo44 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:23

My Italian friends always put their salamies under light olive oil, I did the same and never found any change in taste at all.
Mind you we didn't have or had heard of vacuum sealers then, this was 45 years ago.
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