Cultures

Laftpig
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Cultures

Post by Laftpig » Wed Jan 10, 2018 17:50

Question about mixing cultures in spices.

My thinking is to make spice formulas in advance for the making cured meat. Many require the use of cultures, which I store in the freezer. Can I add these cultures to the spice mix then store for any length of time. If so should it be in the freezer or would the refrigerator be ok with or just in the pantry?
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Bob K
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Post by Bob K » Wed Jan 10, 2018 18:28

No you don't want to contaminate the cultures, It is best to mix them with water before use to wake then up or activate them. Spices are also at there best if freshly ground for each batch.

Great reference if you do not already have it. https://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Making-F ... KWAKIZOORM
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Post by Laftpig » Wed Jan 10, 2018 19:54

Thanks BobK I wasn`t referring to mixing the spices up weeks in advance just a couple of days before needed. I`m just unsure about the cultures. Technique wise most recipes just say to add culture and a few say add a tablespoon of water and mix in culture. What`s your opinion?
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Post by StefanS » Wed Jan 10, 2018 20:38

Laftpig wrote: for the making cured meat.
mainly starter cultures are used in art of making salamis. Whole muscles cuts (coppa, lomo/lonzino, ham) do not need any starters (some exceptions).
For salami - I do dissolve starter culture in 25-30 ml water/kg mince with small amount of dextrose. Letting waking up for 20-30 min. before adding to mix.
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Post by Laftpig » Wed Jan 10, 2018 20:56

StefanS thanks for the information. Hopefully mine will be ok as I only mixed the culture in with the spice mix for my Salami. It was amazing how little is used. The 50 gram package said it would do about 500 pounds of meat. Not an easy measure.
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Post by StefanS » Wed Jan 10, 2018 21:06

IMO - I have adding starter cultures in amount not less than 0.5 g/kg to 1 g/kg of meat for smaller batches of meat. Also - starter cultures require around -20 deg. F for storage. Even few days with temp. above 32 F will kill strains of bacteria in starter culture so mixing with spices in few days in advance do not have functional purposes.
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Post by Laftpig » Wed Jan 10, 2018 21:34

StephanS I only do small batches and have been following the recipes found on the site. Maybe I`m reading it wrong but take the recipe Salami finocchiona, from this site, it shows a 1000 gram batch requires only .12 grams of T-XPS. Should I be adding more? I understand in theory it maybe enough but things are usually different in practice.

The reason I asked about the premixing was the culture was going from freezer to meat, to casing and then 68 degree temperatures with high humidity pretty must immediately.

BobK I have ordered that book thanks for the suggestion.
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Post by StefanS » Thu Jan 11, 2018 00:37

Laftpig wrote:shows a 1000 gram batch requires only .12 grams of T-XPS. Should I be adding more? I understand in theory it maybe enough but things are usually different in practice.
usually - if i have a relative fresh package - i add 0.5 g/kg to 1 g/kg, if package have been open some time ago (but stays in freezer) I add 1 g/kg to 1.5 g/kg. Also - package contain around 70% of dextrose (usually) not strains of bacteria. It is my opinion, hopefully I should be corrected if I'm wrong.
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Post by Bob K » Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:50

In the Marianski recipes the .12 gram per kilo shown is the amount the culture is capable of fermenting if you are making a 440 lb batch and using the whole envelope!

For a viable amount Stefans recommendations are fine. You can also just use .022% culture for small batches. Using too much culture is not harmful so better to always err on the high side
Laftpig wrote: I`m just unsure about the cultures. Technique wise most recipes just say to add culture and a few say add a tablespoon of water and mix in culture. What`s your opinion?

Hows and whys can be found here: https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausag ... e/cultures

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Laftpig wrote: Hopefully mine will be ok as I only mixed the culture in with the spice mix for my Salami. It was amazing how little is used.
Did you check the Ph to verify?
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Post by Laftpig » Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:49

Thanks BobK

This is exactly why this site is so important. The recipes don`t mention anything about using the whole envelope it just says use a scale to measure. As I mention before .12 grams to 1000 is very difficult to weigh and to a newbie it doesn`t look like the amount would do anything to the meat. .22 isn`t much easier. I need to get a 2 decimal place scale. :shock:

I`ll be checking the ph with my strips today.
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Bob K
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Post by Bob K » Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:04

Laftpig wrote:I need to get a 2 decimal place scale.
Lots of .001 Jewelry scales available on E-Bay...,many under 20 bucks. Even come shipped discreetly, so your sausage making habits will be kept a secret. :mrgreen:


Again over inoculating will not hurt, 1/2 teaspoon for up to 10 lbs will work fine
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Post by Laftpig » Thu Jan 11, 2018 19:16

BobK

Seeing this is my first attempt at salami and as I mention before I just have PH strips. I put in the required amounts of T-XPS as required by the recipe. I tested with the strips and the strips really don`t change from their original color just wet looking. That would be a PH of 6 to 7. The salami has been in the refrigerator for one day with all the spices mixed in. I used distilled water, 70 degrees, and made a slurry for testing. I tested the Salami immediately, then at 15 minutes, 30 minutes, and an hour. No change in strip color.

I then took a second sample of salami with 1/2 gram of T-XPS to 1 ounce of meat and retested the same way. The results were the same no color change.

I tested the PH strips with lemon juice, vinegar etc. and the strips responded by changing color immediately.

What`s up :?:
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Bob K
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Post by Bob K » Thu Jan 11, 2018 19:30

Your Kidding, right????
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Post by Laftpig » Thu Jan 11, 2018 20:51

Afraid not. But I do have sense of humor. Do I need it :mrgreen:

BTW the cultures are new just arrived last week and were stored in the freezer.

Am I being stupid here :oops:
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Post by Bob K » Thu Jan 11, 2018 21:24

I would wait for the book you ordered and get a grasp on the whole process,
I have no suggestions for your current project.
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