Garlic - Fresh vs Powdered or

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Thewitt
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Garlic - Fresh vs Powdered or

Post by Thewitt » Thu May 16, 2013 05:52

I just finished reading "Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages" by Stanley Marianski. Good book with lots of interesting information, though it feels in sections like it was written as separate books and merged.

Anyway, Mr Marianski says several times that fresh garlic is not a good idea, but then in his recipe section he goes on to use fresh garlic in his recipes?

I understand that fresh garlic, indeed most herbs and spices used in sausage for thousands of years, were likely fresh as often as dried, but this is really confusing information.

I buy garlic cloves already peeled here at the wet market for a fraction of the cost of powdered garlic in the grocery store. It's just one of those anomalies of living in Malaysia. I can pulse chop 1/2 a cup of garlic in just a few minutes in a mini food processor - so for me the labor involved is using fresh garlic is just not interesting.

I would never even consider using powdered garlic in a recipe if not for a warning like in the book - yet it doesn't seem to bother sausage makers in general.

Did he make too big a deal about it?

Should I be concerned about using fresh garlic?

I suppose this is one of those controversial subjects where everyone has an opinion and all are divided .... but as a newcomer, I want to avoid as many common mistakes as I can. I'm making 5kg of Longganisas this weekend - having put up my first links yesterday and passing the taste test this morning :lol: and I just want to make sure I'm headed in the right direction.

-t
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Thu May 16, 2013 13:28

There is garlic and there is garlic. Not all garlic is the same in flavour and intensity. I have found garlic to be the best during the first three months after harvest. After that, it usually starts to lose flavour and there is a detectable bitterness. There are also many different varieties out there and I have a few favourites. My garlic of last resort is the Chinese variety available in all supermarkets here. It it is weak in flavour and bouquet and you usually have to use three times the amount as good quality domestic stuff. Garlic flakes and powder also have a limited shelf life, so you have to make sure it has not bee languishing in some warehouse for months or even years.

In making fresh and smoked sausage I use fresh garlic, and the dehydrated variety in dry cured products.
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fresh vs. powdered

Post by huckelberry » Thu May 16, 2013 16:41

I believe the answer you are looking for is the fact that when you are making a dry or semidry sausage you use powdered garlic and dry spices to prevent not only the possibilities of contamination but also to avoid the addition of moisture, both of which are detrimental in their production.
The reason it is not so critical in fresh or hot smoked sausage is due the tempratures generated when processing and prepairing these types of sausage.
I hope this helps but I'm sure our old pal Chuckwagon can give you a much more complete and in depth answer.
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Post by crustyo44 » Thu May 16, 2013 20:53

Hi Thewitt,
After making heaps of Hungarian Csabai sausage with lots of garlic, Snagman and I now use stewed garlic. Just slice the amount of garlic and stew in some water, simple, and use the water as well.
We find it much superior than using fresh, powdered or flaked garlic.
The small amount of water soon disappears in the smoking and drying afterwards.
Redzed is so correct, not all garlic is the same. Most times I use the chinese imported stuff and always double up in quantities to get the flavour I am aiming for because it's crap compared to the local stuff which is hard to get most times.
Good Luck,
Jan.
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Post by Chuckwagon » Thu May 16, 2013 21:48

Thewitt,

You`ve asked a few questions that in all fairness should be answered only by Stan Marianski himself. The big guy is a moderator on this very website and he goes by the name of Seminole. Why not address a PM to him and see what he has to say about the matter? In the mean time, allow me to take a shot at the subject with a little of my own perspective.

My ol' pappy used to say... "Son, there are two things you just don't do... get on the right side of yer` horse and cook without garlic". Shucks, our ranch cook "Dutch Oven Dick" wouldn't even speak to people who didn't eat or cook with garlic. He believed anyone not loving the stuff should be deported... from Earth! The opinionated sourdough, wearing the stuff around his neck, told me that garlic falls into two primary categories - hardneck and softneck. As the man spread it upon his toast, he explained that the garlic most of us cook with is of the "softneck" variety, which contains a circle of plump cloves shrouding a second circle of smaller cloves, all enveloped by layers of paper. Its neck is soft and pliable, it is heat-tolerant, stores well, and has become the country`s favorite commercial garlic. Hardneck garlic is distinguished by its stiff center staff, around which large uniform cloves hang. It is considered superior in flavor and more complex and intense than the softneck varieties. The original cultivated garlic, hardneck has a relatively sparse parchment wrapper making it easier to peel (and damage) than softneck and its thinly wrapped cloves lose moisture more quickly than the softneck variety. Dutch Oven Dick's favorites? The robust flavored hardneck varieties of course, including Porcelain, Zemo, Rocambole, and Carpathian.

Garlic, (allium sativum), just like the onion, belongs to the lilly family! It was first found near Siberia although it was discovered later to be growing wild in Sicily. Ancient Greeks and Romans believed a curious superstition - if a man running a race chewed a morsel of the bulb, it would prevent his competitors from getting ahead of him. Grown in England about the year 1540, the name garlic, derived from gar (a spear) and lac (a plant), is of Anglo-Saxon origin.

The majority of garlic in the United States is cultivated near Gilroy, California, and the use of it becomes more popular each year. Gilroy`s Garlic Annual Festival is something to behold! Surprisingly, although the ancient Romans enjoyed garlic, it was believed to be poisonous by many people scarcely over sixty years ago. Today a multitude of disorders are treated with garlic including hypoglycemia, arthritis, hypertension, and diabetes. Pappy used it to treat colds, ulcers, and insomnia. Now, doctors believe it has anti-carcinogenic properties, so cook with lots of it or eat it raw. If your horse complains about your breath, remove garlic`s aroma from your mouth and hands with coffee beans. If your mate objects to the odor of garlic, find a new mate! Drive `em off with 12 gauge buckshot, write his or her phone number upon several restroom walls, sue for divorce including punitive damages, and marry a garlic-loving individual, as he or she will most certainly exhibit a much higher intelligence quotient than your previous partner.

Many cooks claim that crushed garlic added directly to mashed potatoes has too much of a "raw edge" and recommend toasting several unpeeled cloves of garlic inside a dry, cast iron skillet over medium heat to tame the harsh flavor a bit. Shake the pan regularly until the skins are golden brown in about five minutes. The skins will almost fall off the cooked morsels. If you prefer creamier texture, increase the cooking time to as much as fifteen minutes. Quite a number of good panjanglers toast the stuff in a little olive oil and then add the oil to the spuds along with the garlic. In any event, be careful not to burn it as it may become bitter. The amount of flavor extracted from garlic depends upon the extent to which a clove is cut or crushed as the cells of the plant are ruptured releasing allyl sulfenic acid - an odorless chemical - combining with the enzyme allinase. The compound created is known as allicin - the stuff directly accountable for the fundamental aroma and flavor of garlic. The more the plant is broken down, the more enzymes are released as its "bite" becomes stronger. Cooks should realize that allinase becomes inert whenever heated beyond 150 degrees F. and no new flavors may be rendered from the plant - a desired characteristic when it comes to the preparation of "baked garlic".

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by Cabonaia » Sat May 18, 2013 00:20

The Costcos around here carry Christopher Ranch garlic, which is from Gilroy and very reasonably priced when you buy a bag of it. Folks in places where there are Costcos might want to keep an eye out for it.

Cheers,
Jeff
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Post by ursula » Sat May 18, 2013 02:52

It's REALLY easy to grow too! All of mine comes from the garden. Free!
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Subtle garlic

Post by markjass » Tue May 21, 2013 10:50

Fresh spring garlic is like a sweet kiss. The older the garlic becomes the more bitter the kiss becomes. Dried garlic retains a distant memory. Why not rejuvinate memory of the sweet kiss by oven roasting the garlic.
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Post by Jja » Wed Jun 12, 2013 02:02

last week the hardneck garlics sent up their flower stalk. It curls and in order to get larger heads of garlic we cut of the 'scapes'. One patch yielded about 120 scapes which are guarded like frodo hiding his precious, the ring. The scapes are one of the earliest harvests from the garden, and we have been enjoying them sauteed in eggs, blanched and grilled like asparagus with olive oil salt and pepper, giving some to our best friends and family, trading some for farm eggs, and the rest were ground up in the food processor and made into a garlic scape pesto. This is great on toasted bread and pita chips. I vac packed some of the pesto and froze them to have a treat outside our one garlicky week each spring.
I have one other small patch of hardneck that will let us do this again in another week or so. The scapes are one of the reasons I grow so much garlic, usually 4-6 varieties, mostly hardnecks.
I have spoiled my family so much with good garlic that it's a rather sad day when we run out of home grown garlic and have to revert to store bought till the next crop is ready.

I like the others only use fresh garlic in cooked sausages. I plan on trying some early fresh garlic in my next batch of kabanosy. I think its cooked enough to avoid bacterial issues.
On another experiment, Im going to use fresh peeled and lightly blanched garlic ( to limit bacteria, but not flavor) in a kantwurst batch in a couple weeks. I'll update on the results.
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Post by el Ducko » Wed Jun 12, 2013 04:27

I'll second Jan's suggestion on the use of fresh garlic. I started using their method with our Csabaii during "Project B," and it gave superior results- - a good, clean, reproducible garlic taste without worries about contamination.
crustyo44 wrote:After making heaps of Hungarian Csabai sausage with lots of garlic, Snagman and I now use stewed garlic. Just slice the amount of garlic and stew in some water, simple, and use the water as well.
One question- - if there's a hardneck garlic and a softneck garlic, shouldn't there be a redneck garlic too? (Inquiring minds want to know.)
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Wed Jun 12, 2013 04:48

el Ducko wrote:I'll second Jan's suggestion on the use of fresh garlic. I started using their method with our Csabaii during "Project B," and it gave superior results- - a good, clean, reproducible garlic taste without worries about contamination.
crustyo44 wrote:After making heaps of Hungarian Csabai sausage with lots of garlic, Snagman and I now use stewed garlic. Just slice the amount of garlic and stew in some water, simple, and use the water as well.
One question- - if there's a hardneck garlic and a softneck garlic, shouldn't there be a redneck garlic too? (Inquiring minds want to know.)
:mrgreen:
Well Patito, there is a Redneck garlic, and it's as wild (but not quite as crazy and enquiring) as you are! :lol:
http://www.bigjohnsgarden.com/shopgarli ... kwild.html
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load ... 27843.html

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