Hungarian Csabaii

crustyo44
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Post by crustyo44 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 23:37

I fully agree with the Sweet Hungarian paprika, it is the only one to use.
Bubba, your photo's look great but mine are a more darker red. Much more Paprika powder and I also hot smoke them as cold smoking is impossible here this time of the year.
I smoke mine several hours for three days in a row and dry them in the smoker at night with the exhaust fan going.
The reason being, it's too hot during the day.
My smoker has a fan in the exhaust stack for drying biltong and it works very well on the csabai as well.
The last batch I did this way had a marked difference in the texture, right up my alley.
Obviously my clogwog tendencies are coming to the forefront again.
Best Regards,
Jan.
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Post by Bubba » Wed Dec 21, 2011 01:02

Hi Jan,
I see you make Biltong? I love it when it is still a little moist on the inside, sort of chewy not completely dry. And of course a little strip of fat attached to the side. :lol:
crustyo44 wrote:Much more Paprika powder
yes I adjusted paprika quantities on this one sample batch to try the hot Hungarian one.
When I fried a sample piece right after grinding and mixing, it was so good. After smoking it had changed a little.
I loved the taste but may adjust on my next batch again until I get the perfect combination. Garlic also needs adjusting to the upper side.
Ron
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Post by crustyo44 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 02:00

Bubba,
I am always very generous with the garlic as well. Plenty of it and softened in boiling water.
All the spices and garlic I always mix in a food processor and than mix it with the meat before I let it rest in the fridge for 3 or 4 days before mincing, all depending on available time.
It's a trial and error exercise for whatever suits you.
Regards,
Jan.
Brisbane.
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Post by Bubba » Wed Dec 21, 2011 02:37

Hi Jan,

I've never tried adding all the spices and garlic into a food processor, it sounds like a great idea and I'll try that as well.
Ron
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Post by rgauthier20420 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 21:29

I know this is an old thread, but the recipe sounds great and the pictures make me want to eat the computer screen, so I'm making this tomorrow evening. I used Excel to break the recipe up into percentages because I'm making more than a 1 kg batch. Can someone check my math...or Excel's math?

Amt # Percent Ingredient
1000 g Pork
14 g 1.40% Salt
25 g 2.50% Fresh Garlic
16 g 1.60% Sweet Hungarian Paprika
5 g 0.50% Hot Hungarian Paprika
2.5 g 0.25% Whole Caraway
5 g 0.50% Powder Sugar
2 g 0.20% Cure #1
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Bob K
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Post by Bob K » Thu Aug 07, 2014 22:44

Looks good but the recommended amount of cure #1 is 2.5 Grams per Kilo

Here's a link to the cure calculator. http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... calculator
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Post by rgauthier20420 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 02:25

Thanks Bob. I didn't adjust any of the actual numbers just added the percentages. I picked up the pork and mixed everything together this afternoon with the spices and Cure #1. It's now sitting the fridge getting friendly. I'll be grinding and stuffing tomorrow. I made a number of changes to the recipe because of available spices on hand and in the store, but the mixture smells darn good.
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Post by redzed » Fri Aug 08, 2014 06:12

When I first started making sausages, I religiously added 2.5g (156pp) of cure 1 to my smoked sausages. For the past year or so, I have been adding 2g (120 ppm). 156ppm is the maximum allowed by in the USA for ground meat products. Read page 7 here:
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSI ... 7620-3.pdf

So the question is do we have to use the "maximum" amount? My answer is, we don't have to. Our friends on the Polish site use between 16 and 20 grams of peklosol per kilogram of product and that works out in the range of 96-120ppm. To reach 156ppm you would need 26 grams of peklosol, and that would make your sausage way to salty. The limit in Europe for sausages is 150ppm, (25g per kg) and unless we are talking about dry cured products, that amount is never used.

In my opinion 2g of cure in Snagman's Csabaii is just the right amount. Stan Marianski, posting here as Seminole, wrote this a little while ago on this thread http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=6452

Those are the maximum allowable amounts. It is up to you how much you will add. For example, if you add 2% (20 g) peklosol to 1 kg of meat you will get 120 ppm of sodium nitrite. Adding 3% (30 g) will give you 180 ppm.
To get 625 ppm in 1 kg of meat using peklosol you will need to add 104 g (10%) salt and that will make your product very salty. You will have to soak it in water for a long time and that is sometimes not an option. To get such high ppm use American cure #1 (or #2). You could use salt plus pure sodium nitrite, but ask the lab to measure it for you as 1 g of pure sodium nitrite should kill you.

American cures contain more sodium nitrite and to get 625 ppm of sodium nitrite in 1 kg of meat you need only 10 g (1-1/2 tsp) of cure # 1. Now, that you have taken care of your ppm, you can add salt. You may take under consideration that cure #1 contains 93.75% salt and 6.25% of sodium nitrite, so actually you are adding 9.375 g of salt and 0.625 of sodium nitrite.

Don't get it all this confuse you. If you add 150 ppm, 100 ppm or 75 ppm to your minced meat, your smoked sausage will turn out just fine. Italians are making dry hams without any cure at all, just with salt alone, but this is a tricky process.

There is a simple calculator http://www.wedlinydomowe....cure-calculator which allows you to calculate sodium nitrite ppm for American cures #1 and Polish peklosol, you just punch in the desired ppm and the program calculates the rest.



Oh, the salt/nitrite blend known as Cure # 1, Prague Powder #1, was developed in the US for the meat industry on the basis of adding 1lb. of cure 1 to 100 lbs of ground meat. And that works out to 130ppm.
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Post by Bob K » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:59

I am all for adding less however what is the minimum ppm that can be used to prevent botulism poisoning when foods are smoked at low temps?
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Post by redzed » Sat Aug 09, 2014 06:58

That is a good question, but one that has many answers. While 156ppm is the maximum amount of nitrite allowed in comminuted products (200ppm in brined/pumped solid muscle cuts), there is no minimum amount. Marianski summerized this here http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... g/nitrates

[b]There is no regulatory minimum in-going nitrite level for cured products that have been processed to ensure their shelf stability (such as having undergone a complete thermal process, or having been subjected to adequate pH controls, and/or moisture controls in combination with appropriate packaging). However, 40-50 ppm nitrite is useful in that it has some preservative effect. This amount has also been shown to be sufficient for color-fixing purposes and to achieve the expected cured meat or poultry appearance. [/b]

CW is the expert here on the subject, so perhaps he will explain. My understanding is that nitrite is only one of several ways to prevent the growth of botulinum bacteria, so it all depends on the process or a combination there of.
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Post by Bob K » Sat Aug 09, 2014 14:50

I have searched and not found the answer either other than : "Without oxygen, the addition of sodium nitrates or sodium nitrites is necessary to completely prevent the possibility of botulism poisoning."

I did find out that as little as 2 - 14 PPM will affect color and that the mechanism for the unique
taste is not fully understood.
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Post by redzed » Sun Aug 10, 2014 07:26

Bob, 156ppm is the utmost maximum amount of nitrite that a commercial producer can have in their product. I'm sure inspectors give them some leeway, but I doubt too many producers exceed that. Industry standard is 1 lb. of #1 for 480lbs of minced meat. That works out to 130ppm of nitrite. For us hobbyists that works out to 2.08g of #1 per kg. Where does the 2.5g come from? Probably from the 1/2 teaspoon weight of the stuff. Until recently most of us did not have access to scales that weighed such miniscule amounts, so the recipes simply advised 1/2 teaspoon per kilogram. That amount conveniently works out to 2.496g And when the recipe used pounds, they said to use 1 teaspoon per 5lbs. But 5 lbs is more than 2 kg, so if you go that route, and assume that 1 teaspoon weighs 5g the ppm will be 137.8. So the folks that stuck to pounds actually used less nitrite than those of us who use the more logical and simpler metric system.

In these times there is no excuse for not having a scale that will weigh your cure (and other spices) in decimals of a gram. You can get a scale with shipping for 10 bucks or less from China on Ebay. They are are sold as jewellery scales but most are actually purchased for weighing recreational drugs by dealers and buyers (and the odd sausage maker like you and I).
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Post by rgauthier20420 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:53

So I might of goofed. Things got hectic yesterday and I wasn't able to smoke and cook the sausage so they've hung in the bathroom since they've been stuffed...approximately since 3pm yesterday. I again don't have time to do them this morning but I will this evening. Are these still good or should I toss them or maybe put them back in the fridge?
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Post by redzed » Sun Aug 10, 2014 17:24

rgauthier20420 wrote:So I might of goofed. Things got hectic yesterday and I wasn't able to smoke and cook the sausage so they've hung in the bathroom since they've been stuffed...approximately since 3pm yesterday. I again don't have time to do them this morning but I will this evening. Are these still good or should I toss them or maybe put them back in the fridge?
Tough call, and I don't know how many hours your sausage has been sitting at room temperature which these days can be quite warm. All that I can advise you is that standard practice is to set/dry the sausage in a refrigerated environment for 12 hours or even up to 24. But if you don't do that, Polish sausagemaking manuals state that for most sausages setting/drying at room temp is allowed for one to two hours and then should be transferred to the smokehouse. I think that after more than 3 hours in an unrefrigirated state, you will be compromising the quality and the safety of the sausage.
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