Venison Sausage Ratio's

STICKSTRING
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Venison Sausage Ratio's

Post by STICKSTRING » Tue Mar 01, 2016 05:45

Hey guys, so I have been making a ton of sausage and my ratio for venison sausage are as follows :
Venison 50%
Pork Shoulder 40%
Pork back fat 10%

I use http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... an-sausage as one of my favorite Italian sausages, although when I make it with the 50% venison it just seems off. Flavor seems different. I usually make it with 100% pork shoulder (roughly 20% fat).
Any ideas or recommendations?
Thanks
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Butterbean
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Post by Butterbean » Tue Mar 01, 2016 07:42

I know exactly what you are talking about and without going into details just add more fat and omit the back fat. Or pull the coppa meat out of the butt and use the remainder in your Italian sausage mix at a 50/50 rate.
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Bob K
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Post by Bob K » Tue Mar 01, 2016 17:11

Pretty much what BB said. Use the fattier part of the shoulder to mix with venison, the softer fat seems to work better with fresh sausage . I also go down to 30-40% venison for sausages that are better on the fatty side like Italian.

Our all time favorite venison sausage:
Venison sausage

50/50 pork butt / venison

Salt................................ .009

Black pepper................. .005

Cummin........................... .0035

Garlic Powder................... .004

Onion Powder................... .0013

Sugar.................................. .0025

Cayenne................................ .0005

Allspice.................................. .0005

Paprika................................... .0005

Cure #1.................................... .0025

Mustard.................................... .0005

Water..................................... .1

Smoke at 130 with smoke 2 hrs
Finnish at 170 Internal 160.
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Post by STICKSTRING » Wed Mar 02, 2016 04:41

Thank you all! Why is back fat bad for fresh sausage? So just to verify I fully understand, you recommend removing the coppa muscle from the shoulder, setting that aside, and using the remaining shoulder for sausage WITHOUT adding back fat. Only using 50% venison, and 50% Pork Shoulder?

BobK, thank you very much for recipe! I can't wait to try it! Your ingredients are labeled as %'s correct?

So, salt is .009% of total meat and fat weight?
Thank you!
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Post by Butterbean » Wed Mar 02, 2016 13:09

I think Bob gave you the multiplication factors and not percentages. Percentages would be 0.9% salt and so on.

Back fat is a firmer fat best used for other sausages. By removing the coppa you are using the picnic which has a higher amount of fat so in a sense you are just increasing the amount of fat you add to the venison. Market raised pigs a much leaner than they used to be and venison is devoid of fat. I know everyone harps about 30% fat and 70% meat in sausages but when it comes to venison it has no intramuscular fat which really needs to be accounted for. A good way to adjust your eye is to compare some mince using the method you are using and some more using some 70/30 scrap you've purchased. The two minces will look totally different when they shouldn't but that made with the scrap will taste right where that with the butt will inevitably be dry.

You could also just add about 10% more fat to the way you are doing it and it will come out good too.
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Post by Bob K » Wed Mar 02, 2016 13:17

Stick
As BB said that is my work sheet. For percentages just move the decimal two places over.
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Post by STICKSTRING » Wed Mar 02, 2016 18:54

Butterbean,
Thank you very much for your explanation. When do you find it best to add back fat? Smoked Venison Sausage? Venison Dry Cured Sausage? Or should I make it a point to stick with pork shoulder when making any meat products with venison?
Thank you!
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Post by STICKSTRING » Wed Mar 02, 2016 18:55

Bob K,
Thank you very much! I am looking forward to trying this recipe. My wife and I are both avid hunters and always have plenty of Venison and Wild Hog in the freezer waiting to be turned into something!
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Post by Butterbean » Wed Mar 02, 2016 20:26

STICKSTRING wrote:Butterbean,
Thank you very much for your explanation. When do you find it best to add back fat? Smoked Venison Sausage? Venison Dry Cured Sausage? Or should I make it a point to stick with pork shoulder when making any meat products with venison?
Thank you!
I just try to save the backfat for dry cured things because good back fat is sometimes hard to come by and often what is purchased as back fat is not back fat.

It really doesn't matter what cut you use its just that you need to use more fat to get what I think you are looking for. Most will agree a front shoulder has the perfect blend for making sausages (70/30) so what you have to do is adjust your venison recipe to mimic this balance of meat and fat. In your case, if you will break down the fat content you will see you only used 2.2 lbs in 10 lbs of mince which is 8% low. Being you used back fat which doesn't grind and mix as easily the sausage is apt to be drier and courser than sausage made from pork shoulder.

I could show you so much easier than I can tell you. But by dropping down to the picnic area of the shoulder you are using a much fattier cut of meat and its easier to get the ratio right.

I hope this was helpful.
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Post by STICKSTRING » Wed Mar 02, 2016 20:59

butterbean,
Thank you again. This was my logic behind my ratio's... for a 10 lb batch

Wild - 5 lbs
Back Fat - 1 lb
Shoulder - 4 lbs

I figured because venison has 0% fat, the 1 pound back fat would turn the total 6 lbs of venison / fat ratio to 16.7% fat. Then the added pork shoulder (4 lbs) with an estimated 25% fat would turn the total 10 lb batch to 20% fat.

I have read that a total of 20% fat is the goal to reach for.

I also do understand what you mean by back fat doesn't mix well. I did notice after cooking and trying the sausage if I don't "over cook" the sausage, after cutting into it I still see pieces of fat still intact within the sausage.
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Post by Butterbean » Thu Mar 03, 2016 00:15

Just my opinion but I think 20% is just too low when using venison. Jerry Predika recommends using 4 lbs of lean pork and 1 lb of fat which works out to the 20% but this doesn't account for the intramuscular fat in the pork so I think you are actually getting closer to 25%. Venison has nothing.

20% may be alright for fresh patty sausages but I just don't like the mouth feel in linked sausages when its too lean. If adding fat is an issue, you may try using some rusk or possibly some binding agents but I've found just upping the fat gives me a really nice sausage with good mouth feel and not greasy.

You may want to just try a 50/50 mix with the butts. This is a pretty good mix but its too expensive for what I do. I use pork trimmings which are mostly fat and add 30% but I know some who add more than that but I think their sausages are too greasy. I also think fat calculation is rather subjective.

Whether the correct answer is 20%, 25% or 30% really isn't the issue because I think I've been where you are and know what you are describing and believe if you begin upping the fat some - and be sure to mix very well - you will find your venison sausage will improve and once you see the color of the mince you'll have an eye for what you are looking for in future batches and can adjust accordingly on future batches if necessary.

Here is a cooked fresh venison sausage with the ratios I use. Not greasy at all. Nice mouth feel and very smooth on the tongue and a good ham-like bind.

Image[/img]

Hope this is helpful.
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Post by STICKSTRING » Thu Mar 03, 2016 00:32

Butterbean,
That sausage looks fantastic! You say it is a fresh sausage although is it cured? I usually grind my meat once through a 7mm plate, then re-chill, mix with seasoning until it gets a good bind (sticks to my hand), and then stuff. I don't do this because I think its right, only because it was what I was showed when first learning.

For Breakfast sausage I grind once through a 4.5 mm plate and then do the following as stated above.

I use a Cabelas 1hp grinder, LEM 25lb mixer (for batches over 10lbs), LEM 5lb stuffer and a LEM 25lb stuffer.
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Post by Butterbean » Thu Mar 03, 2016 02:33

No cure, just a fresh sausage. I don't have any real set ways of doing anything, I just do what seems right at the time. When I first started I had the hardest time with venison till I changed my mindset on the fat then the quality improved significantly.

I make a fair amount of stuff with venison but I treat it more as a filler as my goal is to make a venison sausage that you cannot tell is not pork.
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Post by STICKSTRING » Thu Mar 03, 2016 22:34

Thank you again, you have been very helpful.
For the Pork Timmings, you say yours is mostly fat. I am going to contact a local mom and pop butcher shop locally and see what I can come up with. Do you recommend me asking for a 50/50 mix pork trimmings? or heavier in Fat?

Thank you,
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Post by Butterbean » Fri Mar 04, 2016 00:08

I really can't answer this because it seems there is a wide range in the grading and it varies so much from one supplier to the next. I normally buy 70/30 or 80/20 for deer sausages but for burger or patty sausage I'll use either beef or pork fat. This is the cheapest. What gets me is I can buy 70/30 from one supplier and it looks like 85% fat to me. Same with the 80/20 but it will have less fat but its still a far cry from the 80% lean its supposed to be. But then I may buy a box of 80/20 trim and get something that looks like this. A whole box full of miscut pork chops which I promptly thanked the Lord and ran through the cuber and made schnitzel meat with because i wasn't about to add this to vension.

Image

I've also learned that certain companies must use high pressure water to extract every piece of meat from the carcass. This fat will look different. Torn and shredded. I don't like this and won't buy it. Probably the best thing to do is just buy some and start experimenting and learn what type fats are available to you. BTW - if you choose to buy plain fat, go through the box and feel it. Normally these boxes are have both the soft fat and the hard back fat but sometimes if it came from the chop area of the plant it may all be back fat.

Due to these wide variance I just look at the meat and try and judge the best I can what needs to be added. I'll add more of the trim if its leaner or less if not but typically I'll add 30% on average.
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