Soy Protein vs Powdered Milk

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Krakowska
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Soy Protein vs Powdered Milk

Post by Krakowska » Sat Jul 14, 2012 21:03

I have been using soy protein as a binder for My smoked kielbasa. Just ran out. Would appreciate what is the difference between using the soy vs powdered milk. The milk is so much easier to purchase. If one cannot tell the difference what is the best brand to use. Any other information would be appreciated. Thank You Very Much. dziekuje!
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Post by Bubba » Sun Jul 15, 2012 01:36

Hi Krakowska,

I can't answer your question of Soy Protein vs Powdered Milk. I have different sausage recipes for both.

Also, both are easily available at the Sausage Maker, and with you being in Florida just order on-line from the link below.

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Post by ssorllih » Sun Jul 15, 2012 02:57

Until now I have been a purist and haven't used any fillers or binders. But what do I know?
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Post by Krakowska » Sun Jul 15, 2012 03:50

Thanks Guys, Never used a binder or filler ssorllih ? Never made any without it. but I only make sausage 4 or 5 times a year and about 25/30 lbs at a crack hand ground. AGAIN many :cool: Thanks
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Post by ssorllih » Sun Jul 15, 2012 03:54

I made three kilos today. Hand ground in a #10 grinder. I believe that is enough work for one day.
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Post by Krakowska » Sun Jul 15, 2012 04:04

:grin: Yep, That is enough. Just got finished. Started at 7 this morning, ended at 1015 PM. two batches through the smoker. Just a small Brinkman using apple wood. Thanks Guy, "Fred" :grin:
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Post by crustyo44 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49

Hi Fred,
I use skim milk powder as a binder sometimes as un-flavoured soy protein powder seems hard to track down. I asked on the forum this same question and a lot of knowledgeable sausagemakers advised me to use the low fat milkpowder.
It suits me as I can buy it anywhere and the sauasge taste is OK. I even used it as a test in some smoked Csabai.
Best of luck from a novice.
Jan.
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Post by Chuckwagon » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:05

Hi Krakowska,
Interesting question! Let me try to provide some pros and cons regarding the stuff.

The Journal Of Lipid Research has recently published a most interesting article regarding oxysterols also known as "oxidized cholesterol". The article in entitled, "Oxidized Cholesterol In The Diet - A Source Of Oxidized Lipoproteins In Humans" and may be found here: http://www.jlr.org/content/44/4/705.full

While milk powders contain all twenty-one standard amino acids (the building blocks of proteins), and are high in soluble vitamins and minerals, they also contain "oxidized cholesterol" - the worst type of cholesterol! Thus, the heated debate about NFDM goes on, even though most of the cholesterol in your body does not come from the food you eat, rather, it is manufactured by your own liver. Opponents yet cite the presence of oxysterols along with high carbohydrate and high fat content. (By the way, fresh fruits and vegetables are rich in antioxidants - your best defense against oxidized cholesterol).

In 1984, three years before "defatted soy flour" was developed by PTI, Rytek Kutas (referring to non-fat dry milk) wrote on page 159 of his revised edition book, "If you are going to use a non-fat dry milk for a binder, your local dairy is usually the only place you can buy it today. The milk has to be a very fine powder and not the granules used for making milk at home. Better still, it should have the consistency of corn starch."

Okay Krakowska, let`s look at Non Fat Dry Milk. It contains:
36% protein
52% carbohydrates (mostly lactose)
1.3% calcium
1.8% potassium
26-40% fat
5-7% ash (minerals)

Proponents point out that although NFDM does not quite have the binding power of soy protein, non-fat dry milk powder is half lactose (sugar) and is often used in making fermented type "dry-cured" sausages such as salami and pepperoni. Why? It is ideal in supplying essential sugar to the lactic acid producing bacteria pediococcus acidilactici and lactobacillus curvatus. Although it is 36% protein, it is also known for improving the taste of low-fat sausages.

On the other hand, soy protein is often used in sausage making as a binder (not to be confused as a filler). As comminuted meat and fat particles are covered with the fine powder (having the consistency of corn starch), soy protein prevents fats from amalgamating and its water-holding ability only increases the firmness of a meat product. The amount added should not exceed 2-1/2% as the flavor of sausage becomes altered, most people calling it "beany" tasting.

Soy protein concentrate is produced by immobilizing soy globulin proteins while allowing soluble carbohydrates to be leached from the defatted flakes along with whey and salts. With these removed, soy protein flour remains. Now, there is a lot of technical saddle-bum science going on to further create edible soy protein concentrate and it involves the removal of specific aqueous acids in something called the isoelectric zone of minimum protein solubility. :shock: And no kidding... it is achieved by the use of... (ta da)... alcohol! Long story short, the consumer winds up with soy protein concentrate at about 70% protein and it binds 4 part of water. Very helpful stuff in the food world. However, it contains a few other additives, including ash and fiber. Don`t ask me why. Shucks, there`s even 1% oil in the stuff. Shucks pard, it also takes one ton of defatted soybean flour to make 1653 pounds of soy protein concentrate. The list of the uses for soy protein concentrate in every industry you can imagine today is as long as my list of excuses for avoiding my wife`s relatives!

In defence of soy protein, Stan Marianski has pointed out that it contains all three nutrients required for healthy nutrition - protein, carbohydrate, and fat - plus the benefits of vitamins and minerals, including calcium, folic acid, and iron. Soy is nearly nutritionally equivalent to meat! It`s oil is 61% polyunsaturated and 24% monounsaturated fat - comparable to the total unsaturated fat content of other vegetable oil. And ... it contains NO cholesterol.

For people who are lactose intolerant (me included), the development of soy protein concentrate and soy protein isolate are a Godsend and very much appreciated. Many of us don`t have a choice, but for those who do, I suggest trying both and weighing the facts listed above. Then make up your own mind.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Last edited by Chuckwagon on Mon Jul 16, 2012 05:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by NorCal Kid » Sun Jul 15, 2012 15:09

Thanks for the information, CW.

I use both products in my sausages when specified in certain recipes. Sometimes a combination of the two.

Re: food allergies. For those with 'soy allergies' & must avoid all soy products-NFDM is a nice alternatve just a the soy concentrate is for those who must avoid dairy.

Kevin
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Post by Krakowska » Sun Jul 15, 2012 16:38

Wow, Thank You SO much Chuckwagon. You sold Me on the soy. We are leaving here in Fl tomorrow for My old hometown of Buffalo and will definitely make it back to "The Sausage Maker" before I come back. The Kutas book is what I have been going by. What a real science this hobby is. I have learned so much and I know now I have a lot more to learn. Very MUCH appreciated Everyone. :grin:
Keep them safe until they all come home.
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Post by Chuckwagon » Mon Jul 16, 2012 06:05

Krakowska,
You are very welcome pal! When you visit the Sausagemaker, be sure to ask for our buddy and fellow member Miroslaw "Mac" Stanuszek. He`s "Mirostan" on our site and one peach of a guy! Mac is the "Research and Development" engineer for the company and just bends over backward to help anyone needing assistance. You can see his photo in the "tutorials" if you scroll down the page a little on this link: http://www.sausagemaker.com/tutorials/s ... ekend.html
Please give Mac our best regards and have a safe and successful trip.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by Bubba » Tue Jul 17, 2012 02:06

I just love and appreciate all the high end information we receive on this site from CW and everyone else, as above, the education of the difference between Soy Protein v/s Powdered Milk. In hindsight, how much I have learnt over the past months / years from here.

A few weeks ago a colleague and I were driving from Alabama to Vonore, Tennessee for a business trip. During the 5 hour trip the conversation moved towards personal hobbies and interests. He started talking about smoking pulled pork, ribs etc. Then when he was done I spoke about how I brine and smoke pork, smoke sausage along with all the ingredients. He grew very quiet and the topic sort of faded away.
At the time I wondered if I had perhaps said the wrong thing about the meat smoking / processing topic.

Some days later in conversation with some other employees a similar topic came up, and this same colleague pointed to me and said :roll: "talk to him, compared to him I'm only a peon"

That day I realized how much I have learnt on this site! :grin:
Ron
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Post by Chuckwagon » Tue Jul 17, 2012 03:51

Mighty kind words pard! Thank you. Hey Ron, I Hope your new job is going well. Have you adjusted to your new home yet? If you have people coming over for barbecue or just a nice party, there's a recipe that will convince 'em you are some kind of wizzard! Allow me to leave you with 4 words to ponder all night long:
Greek Gyros! Greek Gyros! :mrgreen:

Gyros, (pronounced "yuros"), are delicious wraps of lamb, cheese, vegetables, and a special Greek "Tzatziki" sauce made with yogurt, garlic, lemon, and cucumber. The recipe for all the fixin's is here:
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... php?t=5055
You'll have to scroll down to the bottom of the page, but there is a recipe there to even make your own pita bread for the wraps. This stuff is delicious. Hope you give it a try.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by Bubba » Wed Jul 18, 2012 01:56

Thank you CW, I must try the Greek Gyros!

new job is going well, very busy :) and the next few days I'll be in the Lone Star State.
Ron
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Post by Darthfrog » Wed Jul 18, 2012 06:14

One of the many outstanding advantages of home-made charcuterie is the certain knowledge of the kind and quality of the ingredients in the end product. Though I can eat anything (but prefer low-carb as I'm Type II diabetic) SWMBO is coeliac (allergic to gluten) and intolerant of eggs and dairy (both lactose and milk proteins). She can eat my charcuterie without fear of being ambushed.

Thus I cannot use non-fat milk powder in charcuterie that she will eat. So I'm very glad to discover that soy protein isolate can be used in its stead (according to Stanley Marianski's excellent book on "Making Healthy Sausage").

Galloway's (in the link above for soy protein isolate ) is local to me (Burnaby, British Columbia). But I imagine they do on-line ordering, if you can't find it locally.

--
Cheers,
Rob
(SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed, from "Rumpole Of The Bailey"}
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