Binders

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Krakowska
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Binders

Post by Krakowska » Thu Jan 24, 2013 17:51

Does anyone NOT use a binder when making smoked Polish sausage? I'm smoking about 15 lbs now and have used the Rytek Kutas recipe of using soy protein or powdered milk. I vaguely remember my Grandfather in the 50's when He had a grocery store and I'm almost sure he never used any. What would be the difference with / without? Using a combination apple /cherry wood this time. Have used each singularly both seem a lot better than the hickory or mesquite I used in the past. Thanks everyone, I really enjoy this site and Thanks for any help and information. I know experience is the best teacher. Krakowska :wink:
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Post by ssorllih » Thu Jan 24, 2013 18:15

Ross- tightwad home cook
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Post by sawhorseray » Thu Jan 24, 2013 23:15

"What would be the difference with / without?"

I'm hoping you get a solid answer to that question because I've been holding off on making a batch of smoked Polish for just that reason. I THINK soy protein concentrate might enhance the texture (softer) and allow for more moisture content, maybe make it more the consistancy of a hot dog, but I'm not sure. I made a batch of Kolbasz a few months back that came out much firmer that I'd anticipated, I didn't use a binder. They are delicious, tho not with the kind of texture that would be condusive to being placed of a bun or roll and eaten like a hotdog or Polish at a ballpark. Good luck! RAY
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Post by Krakowska » Fri Jan 25, 2013 00:30

Thanks Fellas, Just took Kielbasa out of smoker and showered it down. Came out nice. Like I said, if anyone can answer the with or without riddle. Krakowska :mrgreen:
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Post by ssorllih » Fri Jan 25, 2013 02:31

I don't use any binders in my sausages. No binders, no extenders, no phosphates. I won't purchase meat that has been pumped with whatever it is that they charge $1.75 per pound for that didn't grow in the animal. The difference is you get more pounds with the binder than without it.
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Post by Chuckwagon » Fri Jan 25, 2013 07:09

In 1984, three years before "defatted soy flour" was developed by PTI, Rytek Kutas (referring to non-fat dry milk) wrote on page 159 of his "revised edition" book, "If you are going to use a non-fat dry milk for a binder, your local dairy is usually the only place you can buy it today. The milk has to be a very fine powder and not the granules used for making milk at home. Better still, it should have the consistency of corn starch."

Although it does not have quite the binding power of soy protein, non-fat dry milk powder is half lactose (sugar) and is often used in making fermented type "dry-cured" sausages such as salami and pepperoni. Why? It is ideal in supplying essential sugar to the lactic acid producing bacteria pediococcus acidilactici and lactobacillus curvatus. Although it is 35% protein, it is also known for improving the taste of low-fat sausages.

I have heard of people buying grocery-store dry milk powder granules and pulverizing them inside a blender or food processor for use in prep-cooked-type sausages and semi-dry cured sausages. Many folks say they are not able to tell the difference. Personally, I`m not able to assess it because I am allergic to lactose. However, you may choose it over soy protein. I just count myself lucky to be living in a time when modern science has developed a refined soy protein concentrate. I have always used soy protein concentrate in sausage making and have been totally satisfied with it. Remember, it is an organic product - not a dangerous chemical. For binding power, it can`t be beat. And for keeping the moisture inside a sausage, it is terrific.

Soy protein prevents fats from amalgamating and its water-holding ability only increases the firmness of a meat product. The amount added should not exceed 2-1/2% as the flavor of sausage becomes altered, most people calling it "beany" tasting. It is produced by immobilizing soy globulin proteins while allowing soluble carbohydrates to be leached from the defatted flakes along with whey and salts. With these removed, soy protein flour remains. Now, there is a lot of technical saddle-bum science going on to further create edible soy protein concentrate. It involves the removal of specific aqueous acids in something called the isoelectric zone of minimum protein solubility. And no kidding... it is achieved by the use of... (ta da)... alcohol! When the science settles down, the consumer winds up with soy protein concentrate at about 70% protein... with other additives, including ash and fiber. Shucks, there`s even 1% oil in the stuff. It binds 4 part of water and it takes one ton of defatted soybean flour to make 1653 pounds of soy protein concentrate. The list of the uses for soy protein concentrate in every industry you can imagine is as long as SausageJohn`s chorizo links!

Soy protein has been around longer than most people think. In 1936 it was developed for use in fire extinguishers by the company that eventually became Kidde. The U.S. Navy called the foam product "bean soup" and used it to fight fires aboard ships throughout WWII as it was ideal for putting out gas and oil fires on aircraft carriers. In 1958, the Glidden Paint Company further tested the product and was the first to produce edible soy protein isolate in 1959. However, it wasn`t until 1987 that the product became a leading food additive as defatted soy flour was developed by a corporation named PTI. Later, DuPont Chemical (who owned Ralston-Purina), joined with General Mills creating the first marketed food-grade soy protein isolate. Not to be confused with soy protein concentrate or soy protein flour, the product known as soy protein isolate contains more than 90% protein and no other added ingredients. It is much stronger and more expensive than other soy protein powders. It binds 5 parts of water and is used in the food industry in other applications than in sausage making.

Have you ever wondered why the burgers down at "Al`s Malt Shop" always keep their shape as well as their juices? And just where does that particular special flavor come from? Whenever many people make a burger at home, it crumbles and shrinks and the juices remain upon the griddle as the burger is removed from the heat. The secret for making the best burgers is the addition of the natural "binding" power of soy protein concentrate. The product is natural and, as its name implies, it is simply concentrated soy bean protein. Soy protein binds comminuted (ground) meat together, and for that reason, it helps in retaining its natural juices. This of course, keeps it from shrinking.

It has one shortcoming only - the meat becomes a little more difficult to "sear" or brown while cooking. However, adding a little powdered dextrose or corn syrup solids, adding their own flavors as well, easily solves this problem. Please note these products are also "natural" and used in most commercial sausage kitchens today. Don`t be hesitant to use these products in your cooking as they are completely safe and contain no additives, preservatives, or foreign chemicals. Powdered dextrose is only 70% sweet as sugar and its weight forces itself into the cells of the meat more readily than other types of sugars, for complete distribution.

Want to see what it does? Try this experiment. Years ago, the best burgers were charred outside and barely pink inside. Today, we must protect our guests against possible salmonella, listeria, e-coli, and a host of other bacteria, by cooking the burgers until their inside temperatures register 150 F. or thereabouts, allowing the "carryover" to finish bringing it up to a preferred temperature. Burgers are "medium" at this point. Here`s a dynamite recipe (even if I do say so myself), for a tasty non-shrinkin` burger that won`t fall apart on you. If you stick to the recipe and don`t horse around with the measurements, you`ll really be surprised:

Chuckwagon`s "Hip Shot" Hamburgers

2 lbs. pork shoulder
3 lbs beef chuck
1 tblspn. powdered dextrose
3 tblspns. soy protein concentrate
1-1/2 tblspns. un-iodized salt
1 tblspn. freshly ground black pepper
1/2 tspn. coriander
1/2 tspn. nutmeg
1/2 cup ice cold whole milk

Trim the shoulder and chuck and cut it into inch squares. Grind the nearly-frozen meat with its fat through a 3/8" plate. Mix all the other ingredients into the meat and distribute them thoroughly as you develop the actin and myocin. When pulled apart, the meat should be slightly sticky with soft peaks. Be careful not to over-mix the meat. Form 1/2 pound patties, flattening them evenly with a rolling pin. If you prefer burgers "griddle-fried in smoke", simply place your portable griddle (or cast iron black skillet) on top of the grilling bars of your gas or charcoal grill using plenty of dampened hickory or other hardwood to provide the smudge. Try apple, mesquite, alder, and oak. Don`t even think about pressing the patties down while they`re cooking! Put them on the griddle and allow them to sear before turning them over. You should only have to turn them once.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by Krakowska » Fri Jan 25, 2013 14:31

Thanks Chuckwagon, Very informative and Thanks You for such an explanation. Quite a science.Thanks to everyone else also. You guys are the best! Looks like the next time I make burgers I will mix up a batch of Your recipe Chuckwagon. Krakowska :wink:
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Post by Baconologist » Fri Jan 25, 2013 15:52

Krakowska wrote:Does anyone NOT use a binder when making smoked Polish sausage?
I don't use binders.
You don't need binders to make good sausage, they're a crutch!
Use proper cuts for a good texture, mix the sausage well for a good bind, and don't overcook the sausages!
Godspeed!

Bob
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Post by redzed » Fri Jan 25, 2013 17:30

Krakowska, to begin with, there is more than one smoked Polish sausage, so I don't know which one you are planning to make. Who knows, there are probably varieties that might benefit from the addition of some type of binder. None of the recipes in the translation of official Polish government recipies from the 50's and 60's by Marianski and Gebarowski contain binders. (I highly recommend you get the book.) But in today's Poland many processors use binders. I have experimented with using both skim milk powder and soy protein and sometimes obtained the desired result and sometimes not. When I make fresh Italian sausage I and soy protein granules that result in a more juicy and plump sausage and would not make it any other way.

So if you want to stick to making a truly traditional sausage, don't use binders. But if you want to maintain a higher moisture level of the sausage, and tinker with the texture, go ahead and use a small amount of binder. Using a binder also gives the finished sausage a fuller look and has less wrinkling after it's cooled.

Personally I feel that some of Rytek's recipes call for too much binder, especially in sausages that should be drier or a bit crumbly when you bite into them. And from personal experience I have observed that if you use too much skim milk powder, it is more difficult to peel the skin off the sausage when consuming it.

In summary, there is no one answer to your query. It comes down to what exactly are you trying to make and personal taste and preference.
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Post by el Ducko » Fri Jan 25, 2013 18:21

Any discussion of soy additives reminds me of the old Johnny Carson joke, back in the day when "Hamburger Helper" and beef extenders first were marketed to the general public. When McDonalds first hit " a billion burgers sold," he remarked that "Now they'll have to buy another cow."

Despite Chuckwagon's excellent discussion of using non-fat dried milk and soy protein and whatnot, I think I'll stick with my basic hamburger recipe- - ground beef. Beloved Spouse is allergic to lactose, among other things. Besides, we rarely eat beef anyway.

...this from the son of a soy bean farmer. Yikes!

Pass the tofu sausage, please.
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Post by Cabonaia » Sat Jan 26, 2013 04:54

Krakowska wrote:Does anyone NOT use a binder when making smoked Polish sausage?
I don't. I've made sausage with and without nonfat milk powder (never tried soy), and didn't notice a difference. So now when I use a recipe that calls for a binder, I just leave it out. No other adjustments made.
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Post by ssorllih » Sat Jan 26, 2013 05:23

As best I can understand these binders seem to increase the water moisture retention in the mince when it is cooked so that it doesn't seem so dry. But that is what I was taught to believe was the function of the fat. Does the binder allow you to cook to "well done" without drying the mince? With sandwich sausage succulent and fat were synonymous. When I was a kid Kielbasa came home with dad once in a while and we all got a piece steamed with cabbage and served with potatoes and carrots.
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Post by Chuckwagon » Sat Jan 26, 2013 07:14

Ross, you wrote:
Does the binder allow you to cook to "well done" without drying the mince?
If you want to see "well done without drying", add phosphates. That's what the big commercial boys do. Phosphates hold water in meat like nothing else. Just ask "Big Guy" in Ontario. Personally, I just can't bring myself to use that particular additive. Too much negative science behind the stuff.
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Post by sausagemaneric » Mon Jan 28, 2013 05:23

I use soy protein in my Polish Sausage. I does a nice job of blending the sausage and retaining moisture during he smoking/cooking time. The only thing I don't like about using it is the cost. It costs more than the meat!. I definitely like the product better with it.
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