Lard compared to "pre-mixed oil emulsion"

story28 · Post by **story28** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 07:05

Chuckwagon wrote:Hi Sausagemakers and Smoke Addicts!
Are you stumped with a question or do you have a particular problem you just can't seem to solve? Find "Hyde Park" (that's our "chat" forum) and post your question. If you don't receive an answer from someone with knowledge in that particular area, then send me a PM and I'll research it, squeeze the answer out of some "expert", or come up with an answer for you by intimidating someone, somewhere! Seriously, I may be able to help. So, shoot me a PM and I'll do what I can. I surely don't know it all - but I make a helluva good sourdough biscuit!

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

I'll take you up on that

What do you think of using rendered lard when making spreadable sausages like n'duja or sobrasada? I know they call for a decent amount of fat, and since the idea is spreadability and creaminess, maybe this would be a good idea. But, maybe there are some other problems that could arise when trying this technique that I am not considering?

Alright pal, you asked for it.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 13:36

Jason, you ol` salty dog! You asked me this question in October. Don`t rush me!

Hey... I`m thinkin`! I`m thinkin`!

AKA/ I apologize for not giving you an answer sooner.
Lard has taken a bad rap. During the Second World War, everyone used lard like butter, especially in baked goods. Shucks, I remember spreading it on bread and my mother frying everything in the stuff. Everyone used to buy it canned - just as they purchase shortening today. The trend continued long after the war ended and then during the 1970`s and 1980`s, I watched people begin to shy away from lard as scaremongers began telling the world that it was full of something new... called highly saturated fat and some dad-gummed thing they called cholesterol.

Now, here`s the kicker. Lard actually contains more unsaturated fat, less saturated fat, and less cholesterol than butter, ounce for ounce! Surprised? Shucks pard, I`m not done yet! Lard contains no "trans fat". Today, many food professionals have reconsidered and are indeed using lard again having become familiar with the dire picture scientists have painted regarding trans fats in hydrogenated oils of vegetable shortening. Lard is totally efficient as shortening because of its crystalline fat structure. Last, but not least, it tastes better than any other comparable product.

To get straight to your point, you wrote:

What do you think of using rendered lard when making spreadable sausages like n'duja or sobrasada? I know they call for a decent amount of fat, and since the idea is spreadability and creaminess, maybe this would be a good idea. But, maybe there are some other problems that could arise when trying this technique that I am not considering?

I would suggest that you certainly try it. I firmly believe the words of my ol` daddy who said, "the man who doesn`t try... doesn`t do anything at all".
Jason, the reason I`ve taken so long to think this out is because I`d also like you to try one other product then draw your comparison with that of using lard. That other product is "pre-mixed oil emulsion". It can be made easily in your own kitchen using protein isolate (not protein concentrate) and vegetable oil. Soy protein concentrate is 70% protein and will not produce an emulsion. On the other hand, soy protein isolate is 90% protein and when emulsified (with vegetable oil) produces an emulsion resembling cream cheese. This will eliminate much cholesterol while lowering calories. This home-made product looks and tastes just like fat. It is smooth and creamy and may be refrigerated for a week. Hey, commercial producers are using it. Why not home hobbyists? Here`s the formula: First, chill the oil. Use one part soy protein isolate (not soy protein concentrate) mixed with four parts vegetable oil and five parts water. In other words use 10 grams soy protein isolate, 40 grams vegetable oil, and 50 grams of water. Place the 5 parts cold water in a food processor and slowly add the one part soy protein isolate in about a minute or so. The mixture will become shiny. Slowly add the chilled oil and continue to emulsify the mixture for another couple of minutes until it is completely emulsified. Store the emulsion in the refrigerator.

If you`d like to read more about it, pick up a copy of Stan Marianski`s latest book, "Making Healthy Sausages". He explains the process very well and unlike many others, Stan explains the "whys" and "hows" of pre-mixed oil emulsion. Jason, I really believe this is the product you may be looking for.

Now, give it a try and see what you think. If you don`t like the stuff, you can flick boogers on my Harley!

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 13:59

I fix what I call chopped liver made in the Jewish tradition with smaltz aka remdered chicken fat and pressure can it in quarter pint jars. It is very spreadable and doesn't separate in the jar.

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 18:51

There is an interesting thing that you can do with rendered pork fat. Pour it into a tall clear jar and let it cool slowly at room temperature for a couple of days. If there is no water in it it won't spoil. During the slow cooling process the many component fats will harden and settle and leave a clear oil on top. If it cools quickly the fats all remain mixed. This is why if you buy lard and melt it and then allow it to cool at room temperature it doesn't have the same texture as before. The lower the solidification temperature the lower the saturated fat content.

vagreys · Post by **vagreys** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 03:00

story28 wrote:I'll take you up on that

What do you think of using rendered lard when making spreadable sausages like n'duja or sobrasada? I know they call for a decent amount of fat, and since the idea is spreadability and creaminess, maybe this would be a good idea. But, maybe there are some other problems that could arise when trying this technique that I am not considering?

Alright pal, you asked for it.

Aside from the problems you might encounter using a rendered oil, instead of structured fatty tissue (e.g., back fat or pork belly), I think the biggest problems would be flavor and texture. Rendered lard has a flavor separate from back fat, pork belly, or unsmoked bacon. Using lard instead of other fat would give the sausage a different flavor than typical examples of that sausage. Texture depends on the sausage. In the case of Sobrasada, the texture is a result of the fine grind (>6 mm, usually 3-5 mm) combined with air-curing at moderate temperature and higher humidity for 2-12 months (which gives it the soft, spreadable texture). I'm wondering if using rendered lard would give it a distinctly greasy texture, different from cured fatty tissue?

story28 · Post by **story28** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 17:08

vagreys wrote:
story28 wrote:I'll take you up on that

What do you think of using rendered lard when making spreadable sausages like n'duja or sobrasada? I know they call for a decent amount of fat, and since the idea is spreadability and creaminess, maybe this would be a good idea. But, maybe there are some other problems that could arise when trying this technique that I am not considering?

Alright pal, you asked for it.
Aside from the problems you might encounter using a rendered oil, instead of structured fatty tissue (e.g., back fat or pork belly), I think the biggest problems would be flavor and texture. Rendered lard has a flavor separate from back fat, pork belly, or unsmoked bacon. Using lard instead of other fat would give the sausage a different flavor than typical examples of that sausage. Texture depends on the sausage. In the case of Sobrasada, the texture is a result of the fine grind (>6 mm, usually 3-5 mm) combined with air-curing at moderate temperature and higher humidity for 2-12 months (which gives it the soft, spreadable texture). I'm wondering if using rendered lard would give it a distinctly greasy texture, different from cured fatty tissue?

I wonder the same thing. I think CW is right and I agree with his philosophy of trying. Everything you said is certainly true about how a different procedure can result in a different product. But, at the end of the day, folding a rendered, creamy fat vs. grinding a fat into fine particles might give a better spreadability and texture.

I am going to give it a shot. Like any experiment, one independent variable at a time and I will only be looking for the texture, not so much flavor. Then, if the texture is a success and the flavor is off, I will move on from there. In the case of an N'duja, the copious amounts of pepper powder might hide the difference in flavor of the rendered lard to the point where it cannot be percieved.

But, only time will tell. I will let everyone know.

I will take you up on that idea CW. I will do a batch of that as well and do a blind taste test. It sounds a little wild, but with a product that contains upwards of 40% fat, it sounds like a great method from a health standpoint!

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 06:29

Oh boys.... Oh boys.....
I think both of you may have missed my point. I was hoping you'd try the new method of making a much more healthy product "pre-mixed oil emulsion". Made with vegetable oil.
This stuff is revolutionary to the home sausage maker.
Here's the process again:

It can be made easily in your own kitchen using protein isolate (not protein concentrate) and vegetable oil. Soy protein concentrate is 70% protein and will not produce an emulsion. On the other hand, soy protein isolate is 90% protein and when emulsified (with vegetable oil) produces an emulsion resembling cream cheese. This will eliminate much cholesterol while lowering calories. It is smooth and creamy and may be refrigerated for a week. Hey, commercial producers are using it. Why not home hobbyists? Here`s the formula: First, chill the oil. Use one part soy protein isolate (not soy protein concentrate) mixed with four parts vegetable oil and five parts water. In other words use 10 grams soy protein isolate, 40 grams vegetable oil, and 50 grams of water. Place the 5 parts cold water in a food processor and slowly add the one part soy protein isolate in about a minute or so. The mixture will become shiny. Slowly add the chilled oil and continue to emulsify the mixture for another couple of minutes until it is completely emulsified. Store the emulsion in the refrigerator.

This stuff has no taste and looks like pure backfat... but has nowhere near the calories or cholesterol. Why not give it a try? Soy protein isolate is as near as your local health-food store.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

story28 · Post by **story28** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 14:33

Chuckwagon wrote:Oh boys.... Oh boys.....
I think both of you may have missed my point. I was hoping you'd try the new method of making a much more healthy product "pre-mixed oil emulsion". Made with vegetable oil.
This stuff is revolutionary to the home sausage maker.
Here's the process again:
It can be made easily in your own kitchen using protein isolate (not protein concentrate) and vegetable oil. Soy protein concentrate is 70% protein and will not produce an emulsion. On the other hand, soy protein isolate is 90% protein and when emulsified (with vegetable oil) produces an emulsion resembling cream cheese. This will eliminate much cholesterol while lowering calories. It is smooth and creamy and may be refrigerated for a week. Hey, commercial producers are using it. Why not home hobbyists? Here`s the formula: First, chill the oil. Use one part soy protein isolate (not soy protein concentrate) mixed with four parts vegetable oil and five parts water. In other words use 10 grams soy protein isolate, 40 grams vegetable oil, and 50 grams of water. Place the 5 parts cold water in a food processor and slowly add the one part soy protein isolate in about a minute or so. The mixture will become shiny. Slowly add the chilled oil and continue to emulsify the mixture for another couple of minutes until it is completely emulsified. Store the emulsion in the refrigerator.
This stuff has no taste and looks like pure backfat... but has nowhere near the calories or cholesterol. Why not give it a try? Soy protein isolate is as near as your local health-food store.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Hey pal. I am going to give it a shot. I just need to compare it to my other idea too. I like that there are no off-flavors from the emulsion, but at the same time, fat is flavor, so not having the pork fat might reduce the overall taste of the finished product.

The other thing I would personally have to consider, is writing that into my ingredient list on the menu. I would have to probably do some test marketing with some healthminded people to make sure they weren't put off by reading any unique ingredient substitutes like this one.

Either way, I will be letting you know how it all goes. We have our rough inspection tomorrow and from there we are just waiting on our final inspection from the DCRA and our health inspection. I will post some pictures of the finished product for everyone to see

vagreys · Post by **vagreys** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 00:34

Jason, good luck with your inspections. DC bureaucrats can sure be a pain. I have some friends who live in NoVA and friends up off Eastern Ave., and I'll be bringing them in once you're open.

CW, I didn't miss your point, which I think is very interesting and something I want to try, myself. If it works with olive oil, then it opens a lot of possibility to my mind. I did want to address the question about using rendered lard instead of fresh pork fat, and why I'd be concerned about differences in texture and flavor. Is a creamy, spreadable meat product that tastes similar to Sobrasada, but doesn't have the texture of Sobrasada, still Sobrasada? Will customers who care about ingredients also care about the texture being different from the Sobrasada de Mallorca? I don't know. Probably not. As you say, you don't know unless you try. I'll be interested to taste the results!

vagreys · Post by **vagreys** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 00:48

Chuckwagon wrote:...This stuff has no taste and looks like pure backfat... but has nowhere near the calories or cholesterol...

Does the protein isolate/oil emulsion remain solid at room temperature? Chilled, can it be cut? Can it be run through the grinder without breaking the emulsion? Heh. Guess I'll have to get out the food chemistry set and play, after I get back from Vancouver!

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 01:00

Yes Tom, at room temperature it has the consistency of cream cheese, then when chilled, it solidifies and may be ground through a frozen plate with a frozen knife. At reduced temps, it will not break when introduced into comminuted meat.

story28 · Post by **story28** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 01:14

vagreys wrote:Jason, good luck with your inspections. DC bureaucrats can sure be a pain. I have some friends who live in NoVA and friends up off Eastern Ave., and I'll be bringing them in once you're open.

CW, I didn't miss your point, which I think is very interesting and something I want to try, myself. If it works with olive oil, then it opens a lot of possibility to my mind. I did want to address the question about using rendered lard instead of fresh pork fat, and why I'd be concerned about differences in texture and flavor. Is a creamy, spreadable meat product that tastes similar to Sobrasada, but doesn't have the texture of Sobrasada, still Sobrasada? Will customers who care about ingredients also care about the texture being different from the Sobrasada de Mallorca? I don't know. Probably not. As you say, you don't know unless you try. I'll be interested to taste the results!

Boy do I have stories about the inspection and permit process

. I can't wait to meet you and your pals once we have made it through the fires.

I tend to be a purist when it comes to honoring the heritage of preparations. I should have been more exclusive about my idea. I think this idea has the potential to work in an N'duja where the fat is more felt than seen. Like I was saying about the pepper powder, I don't know if that difference in flavor of rendered fat will come through in the end.

As far as sobrasada; if the texture is different from what a sobrasada is supposed to be; well it's no longer sobrasada - not to me at least. Even if the customers might not know - it is my job to educate as best I can and not give false information intentionally.

I think that if I am able to achieve a product that has all the characteristics of the classic, but a better texture - it's an N'duja and I will roll with it. If I make a product that has a different texture, then I would never call it by its original name. Maybe call it CW's spicy spread

Just Kidding.

crustyo44 · Post by **crustyo44** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 01:17

Gentlemen,
This thread is just in time for me. I just received the "Making Healthy Sausages" and the Mullet book.
I have been thinking about making sausages with this soy isolate concoction for some time now, so Jason, be prepared to answer a few questions fired at you by this old Clogwog.
Being a bit of a healthfreak now, I can hardly wait to make my smoked csabai with it and compare it to the old ones.
Regards,
Jan.
Brisbane.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 01:30

Maybe call it CW's spicy spread

What! Whaaaaa.... where..? Did someone just say "spread" ... uh... Am I... uh...
Do I detect the aroma of bullsnort again?

story28 · Post by **story28** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 01:48

crustyo44 wrote: I have been thinking about making sausages with this soy isolate concoction for some time now, so Jason, be prepared to answer a few questions fired at you by this old Clogwog.

You bet