A Dangerous Party

sawhorseray · Post by **sawhorseray** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 20:47

Until about ten years back I used to attend a Super Bowl party with a large group of friends, it grew to 50-60 people some years. The party was hosted at a different venue each year, big Saturday night dinner and hotel rooms involved. We quit going because we were more comfortable in our own home to watch the game without all the expense and booze involved with that social function. My partner e-mailed that this year his older brother Eddie was hosting and that they expected a crowd of around thirty. According to my partner last year Eddie bought a smoker, a Masterbuilt I think, and that he was going to smoke some salmon and a few chickens for game snacking. I asked if Eddie had been using sodium nitrite to cure any of his meat before going into the smoker. He jokingly replyed to me that "Eddie doesn't have any of that fancy meat-smoking book learnin' like you do Ray". I guess Rytec's bible and this site constitute "fancy book learnin'", it's the only education I've had. Oh, the point of all this! I just received a e-mail today that stated EVERY SINGLE PERSON at the super bowl function who hed eaten any of the chicken or salmon had become violently ill, vomiting and diarreha, with a few needing to go see the doctor. Just shows to go ya, while a little knowlege may be dangerous, no knowlege at all could possibly kill you. RAY

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 21:33

Oh Gawd!! The prospect of that happening scares the begibbers out of me when ever I host any kind of a party.

CrankyBuzzard · Post by **CrankyBuzzard** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 00:16

ssorllih wrote:Oh Gawd!! The prospect of that happening scares the begibbers out of me when ever I host any kind of a party.

That is the main reason I no longer do any type of custom BBQ requests for folks anymore. A couple of years ago a friend had this same thing happen. Now, it could have been aunt Martha's potato salad that caused the problem, but it isn't worth the risk!

When in doubt, brine with a cure...

Charlie

Bubba · Post by **Bubba** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 01:52

CrankyBuzzard wrote: When in doubt, brine with a cure...

Charlie

My fear is that something like this would happen to me as well. Someone bringing something along but all fingers are pointed at the chef.

We can take all the precautions we know, use a cure, use gloves and keep the meat cold etc. Something else could go wrong any time.

sawhorseray · Post by **sawhorseray** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 02:00

Rytec's Rule #1; If it's going to be smoked, it MUST be cured. My partner didn't e-mail me until this morning because he said he was too sick to stand Monday and Tuesday, as was his wife. The final tally was 29 out of 34 people were poisoned. Probably would have been a great day to be a vegan. RAY

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:19

Ray, I would like to thank you for posting this information. Perhaps it will remind people to be more careful. I've had so many people mad at me for bringing up the subject that frankly, I've become a little "gunshy" about the topic. I've had people get right up in my face and argue with me that all these microorganisms are overblown and nonsense. These are the people who smoke meats believing that it "cures" it. These are the people who don't wash and sterilize everything in sight. These are the people who think Campylobacter jejuni, Escherichia coli O157:H7, Listeria monocytogenes, Cyclospora cayetanensis, and other pathogenic microorganisms just cannot affect them. These are the people who never even consider the possibility of clostridium botulinum spores in their sausage... because, after all, their husbands "smoked the meat down by the river just to kill all those nasty bugs" and "there's just no need for all those chemicals in our sausage".

These are the people who will remain ignorant because they remain apathetic... until it affects them!
And Ray, there are folks on this very site (WD) who are angry with me because I've spotted very real trouble spots in their recipes and techniques. Some have left our site. Some have done so in anger. It bothers me a little to tell you the truth, because I've always been just a bit sensitive. But sheeeyuks, I'd rather have them mad at me than six feet underground! So, I'm going to continue to be the ogre and check everyone's recipes for accuracy.
A sausage maker or cook may recklessly endanger the health of other human beings by simply being ignorant. He may even become culpable in the eyes of the law and expose himself to criminal liability. If someone makes sausage without properly preparing it by following the rules, then I believe they should be held responsible in cases of food poisoning. I openly cringe whenever I hear someone repeat the words "he`s just a cook". Inside our ranch kitchen, cowboys helped wash dishes and treated the cook as if he were royalty. We helped keep the kitchen clean and even brought "cookie" a little licorice once in a while.

After all, although he was "just the cook", all hands depended upon the "biscuit wrangler" to feed us fresh, tasty, and safely prepared food. Shucks pards, we all knew he could have easily slipped a little something extra into the chocolate pudding anytime he had revenge on his mind. And by the way Ray, the folks at the Super Bowl party will never again trust "Eddie" to make them even so much as a peanut butter sandwich! He`s marked now.
One last point Ray... each year in the United States alone, there are 5000 people who DIE from some sort of preventable food poisoning. In our day and age of advanced education, this is unacceptable to me. Preventable food poisoning must be eliminated by using our knowledge when circumstances become life-threatening. So, once again Ray my friend, thanks for posting the above information. I hope everyone in our membership reads it.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:42

Very topical thread, thanks gents.

I'm sending this and another thread to a mate who makes a smoked dry cure venison salami without using any No2 cure.

They haven't had any problems, however I am a firm believer in its use and often point out that it is safer to use it than not.

sawhorseray · Post by **sawhorseray** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 14:53

Pete wrote:Very topical thread, thanks gents.

I'm sending this and another thread to a mate who makes a smoked dry cure venison salami without using any No2 cure.

They haven't had any problems, however I am a firm believer in its use and often point out that it is safer to use it than not.

Oooo, sounds like your mate isn't afraid to dance with the devil. I'm not positive but I believe it was Crusty44 (Jan) who in one missive stated that some salami down in Australia had the cure left out much to the surprise, and demise, of some thirty individuals not too long ago. I've gotten to the point where the only cooking besides my own I'll take a chance on at big parties are a couple of functions each year where one guy cooks a whole pig in the ground, and my two Hungarian brothers who roast a whole pig on a spit. Both these guys have been at it for over 20 years, so I trust them. I warned my partner Peter over six months ago to never put a spec of Eddie's stuff in his mouth. Appearantly Eddie had smoked some meats before with no bad ramifications, so my warning kind of fell on deaf ears back then. Oh well. RAY

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 16:32

We don't much hear the adage: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But in food preparation it is so completely true.
When I was in the Air Force at every meal the Mess Sargent went through the chow line with a plate and took a spoonful of each food placed it carefully on the plate and put the plate in the cooler. It was kept until the same meal the following day. This was to preserve a sample of all of the food in case people got sick.

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 18:01

This FSIS/USDA page was posted to another forum this morning. This seems like a good place to post it here. http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FACTSheets/Mea ... /index.asp

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 05:01

Good topic. Altho I have never have had this problem people have some notion that cure #1 is cancer causing. Mainly the nitrite which is found in many leafy vegetables especiallycelery in amounts greater than what I put in any of my smoked products. But I am unable to convince them otherwise but it makes my give away list a lot shorter. If they do not take my smoked sausage they do not get any fresh. Piker

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 06:39

Hi Piker,
During the later 1970's, I was just a young professor at a small college. I read an article by an attention-seeking nutcase claiming that nitrates were some kind of awesome chemical voo-doo poison that was sure to kill us all.

He wanted to create a name for himself by raising controversy regarding the subject. So, he wildly claimed (without research) that the stuff was carcinogenic. Hmmmm... it's sort of like a couple of under-educated, hot shot yahoos on this site we know who constantly try to stir up trouble. Anyway, when the truth was known, nitrate was found to be a useful "salt" capable of protecting us from the dreadful effects of botulism when used in a "moderate" fashion in precisely measured amounts. In my years peering beneath the microscope, I do believe that most any substance at all, presented to the human body in colossal or massive amounts, will constitute a threat of having a carcinogenic or at least a harmful effect.
My advice to you sir, is to relax, enjoy the effects of sodium nitrate designed for our protection, and taste the wonderful world of fermented sausage! Good luck to you pal.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon