Food for thought
- Butterbean
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Food for thought
I am not making a statement here only posing a question because I am interested in your opinions on this. With the recent thread about wild boar and the talk about heritage breeds I was wondering if you think sausages made from these type animals makes a difference because of the breed or the amount of fat they tend to have in all regions of their bodies. In other words, is it the breed itself or the additional fat?
I am not downplaying heritage breeds as I have raised pigs and worked toward a fattier pig than the lean types commercially raised today. They are fattier as are wild hogs fed out but if you've ever tried to fatten a wild hog you would know this isn't an easy venture - or cheap.
I will process some venison for the public and many will ask for 20 - 30% fat added then later will complain the sausage is too dry. Now I don't listen to them and just add what I think is necessary and those complaints went away and from my own taste I found the sausage got much better with higher fat percentages well above what you normally hear quoted. (depending on type fat used)
I don't think it can be disputed that fat is what carries the flavor in meat and its the intramuscular fat that is used to grade beef but it seems this isn't much of a concern in pork anymore but seems to be getting so with people heading back toward the heritage breeds.
These breeds seem to have much more intramuscular fat from what I've seen anyway. So with that in mind, when one adds a percentage of fat to some pork then adds the same percentage to a heritage breed it is commonly felt the heritage breed wins hands down on flavor. But what if you upped the amount of fat used in a commercial hog to replace what is missing in the intramuscular fat? Afterall, its all going to mince so what's the difference? Is it the fat or the breed itself?
I am not downplaying heritage breeds as I have raised pigs and worked toward a fattier pig than the lean types commercially raised today. They are fattier as are wild hogs fed out but if you've ever tried to fatten a wild hog you would know this isn't an easy venture - or cheap.
I will process some venison for the public and many will ask for 20 - 30% fat added then later will complain the sausage is too dry. Now I don't listen to them and just add what I think is necessary and those complaints went away and from my own taste I found the sausage got much better with higher fat percentages well above what you normally hear quoted. (depending on type fat used)
I don't think it can be disputed that fat is what carries the flavor in meat and its the intramuscular fat that is used to grade beef but it seems this isn't much of a concern in pork anymore but seems to be getting so with people heading back toward the heritage breeds.
These breeds seem to have much more intramuscular fat from what I've seen anyway. So with that in mind, when one adds a percentage of fat to some pork then adds the same percentage to a heritage breed it is commonly felt the heritage breed wins hands down on flavor. But what if you upped the amount of fat used in a commercial hog to replace what is missing in the intramuscular fat? Afterall, its all going to mince so what's the difference? Is it the fat or the breed itself?
- Butterbean
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Have heard that too but don't you think a heritage type "fat" pig has a different flavor than that of a hybrid "lean" hog that's been eating the same thing or do they taste the same?
I guess I'm looking at it like I do beef. I raise cattle so beef is always my guide and with cattle I want a lot of marbling. Some health nuts think its bad to see marbling in the meat but this is what I strive for. Its all beef but when its laced with IM fat that is what sets the beef apart. The snowstorm in the meat is what I'm striving for.
For example, this is just a cheap cut from a rump roast from a calf that graded low prime. It has plenty of IM fat in it much more than you might commonly find in the local grocer. I've noticed wild hogs and heritage breeds have more of the same than do the leaner hybrids the pork producers were forced to produce due to peoples' concern over fat intake.
So if diet is a constant than would it not be logical to think that since we are not using the fattier breeds then maybe we are not adding quite enough fat sometimes?
I guess I'm looking at it like I do beef. I raise cattle so beef is always my guide and with cattle I want a lot of marbling. Some health nuts think its bad to see marbling in the meat but this is what I strive for. Its all beef but when its laced with IM fat that is what sets the beef apart. The snowstorm in the meat is what I'm striving for.
For example, this is just a cheap cut from a rump roast from a calf that graded low prime. It has plenty of IM fat in it much more than you might commonly find in the local grocer. I've noticed wild hogs and heritage breeds have more of the same than do the leaner hybrids the pork producers were forced to produce due to peoples' concern over fat intake.
So if diet is a constant than would it not be logical to think that since we are not using the fattier breeds then maybe we are not adding quite enough fat sometimes?
I am not that fortunate to have the option of using a different breed of pig unless I want to pay through the PIGs nose so to speak.
There are a couple of farmers who raise Berkshire pigs but it cost a arm and a pigs leg to buy from them.
We do have this going on where I live but really never looked into it.
http://thunderbaycountrymarket.com/new/ ... d-weaners/
There are a couple of farmers who raise Berkshire pigs but it cost a arm and a pigs leg to buy from them.
We do have this going on where I live but really never looked into it.
http://thunderbaycountrymarket.com/new/ ... d-weaners/
When I was a kid on the farm We fenced a quarter acre for 2 or 3 and fed them mash and skim milk in the morning along with hay and apples and whatever they could forage. I don't recall what they got at evening feeding but we never restricted their food supply. My sister is concerned about her pigs getting too fat. A problem I never knew existed until she started raising a few.
Ross- tightwad home cook
- Butterbean
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Devo, that is sortof the gist of what I'm getting at with these questions.
I don't think there are any concrete answers but I do think history repeats itself and there was a time when pigs were fat and like ssorlith said some too fat. The public changed their tune and wanted lean pork and at one time pork was advertised as the other white meat because it was so lean. But did our recipes ever change to reflect the change in the key ingredient? Is this new discovery of these old breeds really the breed itself or is it that we are just remembering now how great a little extra fat makes our dishes? And by adding a little extra fat than normal could you not make a product just as flavorful as these expensive heritage breeds?
I don't have the answer but I think its an interesting and legitimate question. I do know that with any wild hogs I've messed with their IM fat has been much fattier than those of their hybrid counterparts.
I don't think there are any concrete answers but I do think history repeats itself and there was a time when pigs were fat and like ssorlith said some too fat. The public changed their tune and wanted lean pork and at one time pork was advertised as the other white meat because it was so lean. But did our recipes ever change to reflect the change in the key ingredient? Is this new discovery of these old breeds really the breed itself or is it that we are just remembering now how great a little extra fat makes our dishes? And by adding a little extra fat than normal could you not make a product just as flavorful as these expensive heritage breeds?
I don't have the answer but I think its an interesting and legitimate question. I do know that with any wild hogs I've messed with their IM fat has been much fattier than those of their hybrid counterparts.
It's a great question. I've started adding more fat than I used to - especially to recipes where just butt is called for. Where breeds are concerned I've raised two types on the same feed and the fat tasted different with each and behaved differently too. I thought it tasted better than commercially raised.
In the end though what really matters is the skill of the sausage maker. If you have great pork too so much the better. And when it comes to whole muscle products like bacon the quality of the pork can literally be seen as well as tasted.
That's an amazing little rump roast btw. You obviously know what you're doing.
In the end though what really matters is the skill of the sausage maker. If you have great pork too so much the better. And when it comes to whole muscle products like bacon the quality of the pork can literally be seen as well as tasted.
That's an amazing little rump roast btw. You obviously know what you're doing.
Can you separate the fat from the breed? Is this like the chicken and egg question? I have not tried pork from a heritage breed. However, I have and use pork that is free farmed and anti-biotic free (not sure if can/does effect the flavour). This pork has slightly more, but not a lot more fat than supermarket pork. However the flavour is more intense, it is richer and the texture of the pork is finer (I do not know if this is due to the killing process). Also the water content is much less.
Afterall you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear. - had to throw this in.
Afterall you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear. - had to throw this in.
Do no harm. Margerine is the biggest food crime
- Butterbean
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Mark, I've also noticed pigs I've raised and slaughtered had much less water than store bought meat and I think this is primarily from the large processors are allowed to add water during processing. I forget the percentage they are allowed but its noticeable to the touch and you can definitely notice the difference in the water on your cutting table, which I think would definitely dilute the flavor in several ways. But if this same pig was processed at a smaller facility then I think you would see a difference between the two so its not all breed related and processing has some effect.
Where breed seems to make a difference is in the larger cuts like Carbonaia mentions. Some of these have much thicker layers of backfat compared to the hybrids. (I think years ago when we all used lard this fat was wanted for lard production and they have now bred this out in the hybrids.)
That's interesting about the difference in the fat flavor of the breed Carbonaia. I haven't done enough testing to notice a difference when they are fed similar. In cattle, I look for what I call an easy flesher. This is like the kid in school who was always fighting a weight problem and could get fat on celery. These animals are found within breeds but they just fatten quicker and better due to some genetic quark. I wish I had some way of guaranteeing each would turn out like the one did in the photo but not knowing is also kind of fun. When you split the quarter its like opening a present at Christmas.
I don't know if there is any good answer but I find its interesting and good food for thought.
Where breed seems to make a difference is in the larger cuts like Carbonaia mentions. Some of these have much thicker layers of backfat compared to the hybrids. (I think years ago when we all used lard this fat was wanted for lard production and they have now bred this out in the hybrids.)
That's interesting about the difference in the fat flavor of the breed Carbonaia. I haven't done enough testing to notice a difference when they are fed similar. In cattle, I look for what I call an easy flesher. This is like the kid in school who was always fighting a weight problem and could get fat on celery. These animals are found within breeds but they just fatten quicker and better due to some genetic quark. I wish I had some way of guaranteeing each would turn out like the one did in the photo but not knowing is also kind of fun. When you split the quarter its like opening a present at Christmas.
I don't know if there is any good answer but I find its interesting and good food for thought.
I have noticed in the stores that it is listed on the label if water or "other liquids to enhance flavor" is added. If I recall correctly it says up to 10%.Butterbean wrote:Mark, I've also noticed pigs I've raised and slaughtered had much less water than store bought meat and I think this is primarily from the large processors are allowed to add water during processing. I forget the percentage they are allowed but its noticeable to the touch and you can definitely notice the difference in the water on your cutting table, which I think would definitely dilute the flavor in several ways.
I avoid the water added pork if I am making cured whole muscle products or fermented and dried sausages.
- Butterbean
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I do the same. Sure makes cleaning casings a lot more tolerable.
I am more familiar with cattle and there is a lot of heated argument about the best cattle breed or the best way to finish an animal. Much of this is clever marketing and I see some similarities in some of the pig breed discussions. In general, I think what many have come to realize is to have the best tasting pork - or meat - you need more fat but admitting that you are adding more fat is harder to do than saying you are using a heritage breed or whatever. I know from my limited pig raising experience the amount back fat differs significantly from a hybrid and a crossed up heritage type. If my hunch is right then I think if we cannot find a fat hog at a reasonable price we could all save some money by simply adding more fat to the mix to make up for all the intramuscular fat we are not getting with the hybrid breeds.
Speaking of intramuscular fat, here are some we shot in a peanut field one morning. These things had fat woven throughout the meat and was some of the fattiest pork I ever messed with. Unfortunately, it all went for pulled pork because I'm not allowed to have them in my building.
I am more familiar with cattle and there is a lot of heated argument about the best cattle breed or the best way to finish an animal. Much of this is clever marketing and I see some similarities in some of the pig breed discussions. In general, I think what many have come to realize is to have the best tasting pork - or meat - you need more fat but admitting that you are adding more fat is harder to do than saying you are using a heritage breed or whatever. I know from my limited pig raising experience the amount back fat differs significantly from a hybrid and a crossed up heritage type. If my hunch is right then I think if we cannot find a fat hog at a reasonable price we could all save some money by simply adding more fat to the mix to make up for all the intramuscular fat we are not getting with the hybrid breeds.
Speaking of intramuscular fat, here are some we shot in a peanut field one morning. These things had fat woven throughout the meat and was some of the fattiest pork I ever messed with. Unfortunately, it all went for pulled pork because I'm not allowed to have them in my building.
This fellow from one of the facebook pages I follow just got these. Lucky guy and I can only imagine the hoops he had to jump through to get them.
Mangalitsa Pigs with original Hungarian blood lines arrived at his farm in Michigan. It took him just about 3 years from start to finish to finish, but now he is finally confident that there is enough diversity in the U.S. permanently establish the breed.
Mangalitsa Pigs with original Hungarian blood lines arrived at his farm in Michigan. It took him just about 3 years from start to finish to finish, but now he is finally confident that there is enough diversity in the U.S. permanently establish the breed.
I raised some mangalitz-tamworth crosses. Boy were they fat! Too fat for my purposes actually. I made lard from the fat I didn't use in sausage and gave a lot of it away. The backfat from these pigs was softer than I'm used to. I got great, succulent pork chops but the belly was mostly fat and while it tasted good, meat tastes better. I'm very inexperienced in raising hogs and maybe I fed them wrong, but have been much happier for my purposes with Berkshires.
Jeff
Jeff