My upgraded dual controller curing chamber

IFB
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 00:05
Location: Ontario

My upgraded dual controller curing chamber

Post by IFB » Mon Oct 19, 2015 01:09

A few months ago I was forced to make an upgrade to my curing chamber to fight high humidity problem. Basically ended up adding a second controller and a peltier dehumidifier.

I am now able to control humidity within a very tight range. Say, 75% to 78%. When RH drops below 75%, the humidifier kicks in. If the RH goes over 78%, the dehumidifier starts working. Pretty amazing, and my final product quality improved dramatically. Much more consistent now. Case hardening that I had issues with before is history.


More details here.



Image



Image



Image
User avatar
Bob K
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 15:16
Location: Northwest Ct

Post by Bob K » Mon Oct 19, 2015 15:25

Looks good IFB! Must be tricky to keep in sync with a +/- 3 % range. How often do you calibrate them. Or do you change the offset so that they read the same?
IFB
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 00:05
Location: Ontario

Post by IFB » Mon Oct 19, 2015 16:36

Bob K wrote:Looks good IFB! Must be tricky to keep in sync with a +/- 3 % range. How often do you calibrate them. Or do you change the offset so that they read the same?
Thanks Bob. I don't calibrate them. I did initially, but once in the field (the curing chamber) they start reading slightly differently. I think it's because of the sensor placement. Or maybe it's the sensors that behave differently at lower temps. I could change the offset to equalize them, but honestly, I don't see the need.

The good news is that they are staying constant relative to each other, 0 to 1-2 % difference depending on temperature, presence of air movement, so I don't bother. The one that controls the humidifier always shows slightly lower RH, which works fine as this widens the gap a little so there is less of a chance of a conflict. In the end, the setup works well and I don't want to mess with it.

I saw the biggest improvement to the final products from adding the dehumidifier as I rarely had low humidity problem. My challenge was too much humidity. The low humidity is only a problem when the fridge starts to cycle. For that short period of time i am not too concerned about +/- a few % points, I just don't want the humidity to drop below 70%. When cycling is done, within a minute my humidity starts creeping up and most of the time it's the dehumidifier that is at work. The gap between the two is irrelevant at this point.
User avatar
redzed
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3852
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 06:29
Location: Vancouver Island

Post by redzed » Mon Oct 19, 2015 16:54

Definitely a good idea IFB and it's great to not to have the case hardening issues. That is something that I am am having issues with. I also bought the Auberins dual controller to replace the old one and tried running it in my converted all-fridge. It's supposed to have a good quality sensor tolerant of high humidity, but it seems to read high a lot of the time and I still get case hardening. Where in the chamber did you locate the sensors? And can you tell me how that dehumidifier works? I see that you have it inside the chamber, so does it have a container with water, if so how often do you have to empty it? Or did you install a drain? I will be building a new chamber in the next few months and looking for all kinds of ideas. :grin:

And it would help many of us who already have chambers as well as newbies out there who are starting out if you posted more pictures of your chamber with specifics as to equipment, venting, etc.

Thanks for posting that info.

Chris
User avatar
Bob K
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 15:16
Location: Northwest Ct

Post by Bob K » Mon Oct 19, 2015 17:44

What % of relative humidity are you guys targeting? Mine stays at 80-85 %, usually closer to 85 and I rarely have case hardening on chubs up to 65mm the 76mm 3" still have a bit of a dry rim though.
Chris - the Auburn sensor really spikes if you open the door when it is warm and humid out and takes a while to recover. It will also happen if you try to introduce outside air from your air exchange system if the Rh is high. They seem to be sensitive to condensation.
IFB
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 00:05
Location: Ontario

Post by IFB » Mon Oct 19, 2015 19:28

redzed wrote:Definitely a good idea IFB and it's great to not to have the case hardening issues. That is something that I am am having issues with. I also bought the Auberins dual controller to replace the old one and tried running it in my converted all-fridge. It's supposed to have a good quality sensor tolerant of high humidity, but it seems to read high a lot of the time and I still get case hardening. Where in the chamber did you locate the sensors? And can you tell me how that dehumidifier works? I see that you have it inside the chamber, so does it have a container with water, if so how often do you have to empty it? Or did you install a drain? I will be building a new chamber in the next few months and looking for all kinds of ideas. :grin:

And it would help many of us who already have chambers as well as newbies out there who are starting out if you posted more pictures of your chamber with specifics as to equipment, venting, etc.

Thanks for posting that info.

Chris

Chris, I am definitely happy with my Auber dual controller. I bought the first one quite a while ago and it's been rock solid. As far as it reading too high, I would not worry about it. When you have one controller you tend to doubt it's accuracy, and I did too. I now have two Auber controllers and one Extech hygro-thermometer (take a closer look at the second and third picture I posted above), all three give practically identical readings. It does read high when you open the fridge, but that's due to warmer air getting inside the fridge and condensing on the sensor. As soon as you close the fridge, the reading goes back to normal. Actually, the Extech is doing the same thing, albeit a little slower. As Bob said above, if you run a fan to draw air from outside it will also affect Auber's readings.

The sensors are located on the top rack, right above the sausages, see the picture below:


Image

I have more pictures of my setup and descriptions here: http://ifoodblogger.com/how-to/meat-curing-chamber/

The dehumidifier is relatively small, it's a closet type peltier dehumidifier. Indeed, it's located inside the fridge. There is no drain installed, the water is accumulated in the water tank located at the bottom of dehumidifier. If you look at the first picture in my original post, the water container has purple color. Its capacity is 16 oz, if I recall correctly. I empty it maybe once a week or so. That definitely depends on where in the drying cycle you are. With 10 lbs of fresh sausage hanging there I would empty it more frequently (once every few days), and much less frequently after say 3 weeks of drying.

Installing a drain should not be an issue though - drill a hole in the water tank, attach a hose and off she goes.
IFB
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 00:05
Location: Ontario

Post by IFB » Mon Oct 19, 2015 19:52

Bob K wrote:What % of relative humidity are you guys targeting? Mine stays at 80-85 %, usually closer to 85 and I rarely have case hardening on chubs up to 65mm the 76mm 3" still have a bit of a dry rim though.
Chris - the Auburn sensor really spikes if you open the door when it is warm and humid out and takes a while to recover. It will also happen if you try to introduce outside air from your air exchange system if the Rh is high. They seem to be sensitive to condensation.
Bob, in the last two batches I targeted 78% RH and it worked well on 40-50mm sopressata. In my current batch I am doing a staged approach that Marianski described in one of his books. I started off with 88% for the first 5 days, then 83% the next 5 days, and now I am staying at 78%. I might drop down to 75% in the final days. Will see how this turns out.

I also noticed stronger case hardening on my thicker sausages. This is the biggest reason I went with a dual controller set up. I read somewhere that as Aw drops and outside humidity stays high, drying slows down causing case hardening and soft, mushy center - exactly what I had been experiencing before.

Another interesting observation, and maybe I am just imagining things here, is that Bactoferm 600 maybe responsible for a lot of my case hardening issues. I know, this sounds counter intuitive, but my very first batch with 12 lbs of meats and no dehumidifier turned out fantastic. Yes, I had some green mold here and there, but nothing major. If I recall, the average RH was 88-90 initially, then dropped to 85-86 %. The sausages developed a very thin layer of dry, chalky mold.

With Bactoferm 600 I get a layer of wet, greyish, sticky goo at RH above 80%. It seems to never dry causing me to wipe it off. Lot's of case hardening and mushy meat in the center. It's barely a problem now, I get a thick coat of white mold, but I am thinking of dropping it for the next batch. With better RH control bad molds will hardly be a problem. I suspect that that thick white mold is actually retarding drying rather than helping it.
User avatar
Bob K
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 15:16
Location: Northwest Ct

Post by Bob K » Mon Oct 19, 2015 20:18

Interesting as to the different results., and I don't have an explanation.

At 80-85 humidity with mold 600 I get a light fluffy mold, like a dry powder.

I use 3 hygrometers a digital, an analog, and the auburn and I calibrate them periodically.

Did you originally have your humidifier on the interior of your chamber?

Image
Image
IFB
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 00:05
Location: Ontario

Post by IFB » Mon Oct 19, 2015 22:07

Looking good, Bob. Initially I had my dehumidifier on the inside. Why?


Here is my sopressata from made in the old fridge, I think this was in the second batch I made in that fridge. A little bit of case hardening, but did not affect how the sausage dried inside. Was very happy with the results.
Image

This is sujuk made in my new fridge, before I added second controller. Sujuk is not very demanding at all.

Image
Image
User avatar
Bob K
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 15:16
Location: Northwest Ct

Post by Bob K » Tue Oct 20, 2015 14:12

IFB wrote:Initially I had my dehumidifier on the inside. Why?
Even the misters spew some water droplets, that could have been causing them to get to wet and slimey.
pumping the mist in through a tube eliminates that problem...and makes more room in the chamber :mrgreen:

But as we have all found out there is more of a need to remove humidity than add it. My humidifier is over half full from the original filing nearly 2 years ago.
IFB
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 00:05
Location: Ontario

Post by IFB » Tue Oct 20, 2015 15:15

Bob K wrote:
IFB wrote:Initially I had my dehumidifier on the inside. Why?
Even the misters spew some water droplets, that could have been causing them to get to wet and slimey.
pumping the mist in through a tube eliminates that problem...and makes more room in the chamber :mrgreen:

But as we have all found out there is more of a need to remove humidity than add it. My humidifier is over half full from the original filing nearly 2 years ago.
Interesting, did not know that. I used to refill my humidifier once every year or so. Now with the new setup I think I do it once every 3-4 months or so. I run it on the lowest setting.

I don't know how much damage is done by letting humidity drop to 40-50% for short periods during fridge cycling, probably very little, if any, but the humidifier eliminates that risk. I'd be curious to do some testing in the future.
IFB
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 00:05
Location: Ontario

Post by IFB » Thu Oct 29, 2015 23:30

My sopressata in the upgraded curing chamber is ready. Exactly at 30% weight loss. I plan on drying some of them to 35% weight loss as some like it softer, some drier.

Quite pleased with the results. For this batch I used a stepped approach to humidity suggested by S. Marianski. I did five days at 88%, 5 days at 83% and finished at 78%. Not sure it helped much, hard to compare to the last batch as I don't have it sitting next to this one. Subjectively, I think it dried a little bit more uniformly and the casing is a bit softer.

Anyway, this is the third batch in the upgraded chamber, and the results so far have been pretty consistent and very satisfactory. The mold is dry and chalky, no sticky wet goo as before the upgrade. Similarly, no green mold anywhere which was a problem before due to high humidity.

Image

There is a dark-ish ring close to the casing, but I am pretty sure it's not a sign of case hardning as the meat is uniformly firm throughout, and the casing is soft and comes off nicely. The center not even a bit mushy like what I used to get with case hardening.

Image

I looked at dozens of pictures of artisan salami and sopressata online, and to my relief pretty much all of them show the same dark ring. I suppose this is normal.

Image

Image
User avatar
Bob K
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 15:16
Location: Northwest Ct

Post by Bob K » Fri Oct 30, 2015 15:58

Well your fine tuning is really paying off Victor :!: That sopressata looks fantastic.

Curing chambers all have to be adjusted to ones environment and usage. Those that stick with it are duly rewarded.
IFB
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 00:05
Location: Ontario

Post by IFB » Fri Oct 30, 2015 20:23

Bob K wrote:Well your fine tuning is really paying off Victor :!: That sopressata looks fantastic.

Curing chambers all have to be adjusted to ones environment and usage. Those that stick with it are duly rewarded.
Thank you for the kind words, Bob. Means a lot to me coming from you.
IFB
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 00:05
Location: Ontario

Post by IFB » Sat Nov 14, 2015 23:10

Another update for those who may be interested. Today my sopressata hit 35% weight loss. It tastes and looks remarkably better than it did two weeks ago at 30% weight loss.

Image

Shortly after the sausages reached 30% weight loss I noticed that the casings started to feel slightly harder than before. Not by much, but enough for me to feel some increased hardness. I bumped the target for the dehumidifier to 80% and 78% for the dehumidifier. That did the trick and the casings went back to normal for the remainder of the drying process.

Also found a picture of finocchiona salami I made last spring before the upgrade. It's a good
example of what type of challenges I had to deal with before. The mold on the outside was fine, but inside the meat was pale and very soft toward the center.

Image

If you take a close look at the casing around the perimeter of the cut you will notice a great deal of casing separation. The surface under the casing was quite oily. No wonder it did not dry well. The casing felt quite hard too, despite high humidity. Go figure.

I don't think this problem is what you would necessarily call case hardening. It has more to do with stalled moisture removal due to high external humidity. You can read more here if you are interested.
Post Reply