Dry cure skin-off ham?

farmboy236 · Post by **farmboy236** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:59

I am getting ready to process 2 Berkshire hogs. My processor doesn't scald, he only skins, so all of my cuts will be skin_off. My question is can I dry cure and age a bone-in, skin_off ham. I will brine 2 of the hams but I wanted to dry cure the other 2.

Post by **Bob K** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 13:47

farmboy -
The short answer is yes you can.

There is a lot of related info in this recent thread. http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

Devo · Post by **Devo** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 16:48

Yes you can but I would recommend you get something like a hog bladder and sew it in after the curing stage. If you let it hang and dry without some protection the outside could become like shoe leather. You could I suppose cover it all with strutto. (black pepper, lard and rice flour)

farmboy236 · Post by **farmboy236** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 20:15

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it!

Devo - Thanks man, I had forgotten about pigs bladder and Culatello; I think that that is my answer! I have seen them for sale at Butcher Packer but ,as usual, B/P is sketchy on detail. How do you prep them for use? Do you equalize the meat before hand after the cure and before you "stuff"? I guess I can do something different and research some recipes before I ask 100 more questions! And again thanks for your help guys.

Devo · Post by **Devo** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 02:31

Since this is all new to me I will let someone with more experience pipe in. I can only relay information I have read along the way as I have never done this before. Watching for someone with more experience than I to offer some advice.

Post by **Butterbean** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 06:20

Can you not find another processor? Never heard of one that didn't scald. Or do it yourself. Nothing to it.

farmboy236 · Post by **farmboy236** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 17:13

Butterbean,
Tennessee health regs are getting to the point that no one wants to scald anymore. The closest processor that scalds is in another state.

I ended up going the Culetello route and they have been in the cure for 3 days now. The hogs (Berkshires) ended up hanging at 185 and 193; they were around 300# on the hoof. Currently in the cure I have:
35# pounds of bellies, brown sugar cure
4ea Jowls for Guanciale, home made cure (Cure #1,Kosher salt, Blk Pepper, Dark Brown
Sugar, ground Pickling Spice)

In a Brine cure I have:
4ea Hocks
4ea Fiooco (fichetto) from the other side of the ham from the Culatello
The brine is cure#1, Dk Brown sugar, Kosher Salt and ground Pickling Spice

In the smoker today I have Neck Bones and the Ham Bones from the Culatello process. They are seasoned with salt/pepper and smoked for 8 to 9 hours at 200-250 degreesF. I will use these as seasoning for (whatever ) and the bones for soup.

The hocks come out on Tues am then the Fiocco on Thurs. The bellies and Guanciale come out from Sat to Mon am, depending on weight, then to the smoker. The Culatello will be out in 21 days (by the recipe) but I will probably give them another week or more depending on how they feel and their weights.

I haven't even begun to make Lard or grind sausage yet! With just a KitchenAide grinder and stuffer it will be a lllooonnnggg road! Anyone out there in Tenneessee want to help? I pay in fresh Berkshire Pork

!

Post by **Butterbean** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 19:08

Sounds good.

Not arguing with you because I don't know squat about Tennessee health regulations but I find it hard to believe they are making scalding difficult since all the cured hams coming from Tennessee are skin on and this is big business. Most processors have a tumbler that will scald and dehair a hog in just a couple of minutes in the vat and the results are a very clean carcass to work with. I suspect they processor doesn't have one of these and doesn't want to be bothered doing it by hand.

If it were me and I'm going to go to all the trouble of raising or procuring live pigs I'd do it myself before I skint a hog and lose all the opportunities this affords you. Doing it yourself seems much harder than it actually is but your effort will be rewarded with the fifth quarter that you were forced to purchase portions from Butcher Packer. There is a gold mine in the fifth quarter from bladders to caul fat. Stuff you can't afford to buy or can't find if you could. If you take your time and plan the processing you will find you will only lose about 20% of the live weight when you fully utilize the carcass. Ie, the waste of a 300 lb hog will easily fit in a five gallon bucket.

If you chose to try this next time there are two things I'd suggest. First, is not to feed the pig for a day prior to slaughter - just give it plenty of water. Second, have someone to help you even if you have to pay them. This is mainly for the lifting. The rest of it is pretty easy stuff.

Also, if you don't have a kettle or an iron bathtub to dip the carcass in you can lay it on a table and cover it with a beach towel and use a large pot and a fish cooker to simmer your water then dip the water from this and pour over the beach towel. When you lift the towel up you'll find the outer skin and hair will peel right off like sunburned skin.

farmboy236 · Post by **farmboy236** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 19:59

The raw product from the Tennessee makers (Bentons, The Hammery, etc.) are sourced from USDA approved purveyors like Buckhead Beef, Sysco and other local purveyors. If you're familiar with processing fees, then the closest in-state processor to me charges an $80 kill fee, $80 scald, .80 cents per pound cut & wrap and in addition, if you want to sell parts of that hog, a USDA Inspection charge. As far as doing it myself, I have NO desire to butcher a pig outside in sub-freezing temps and my kitchen is too small to process anything larger than a roast. My processor, while not perfect is about 5 miles from my farm and allows me to cure in his shop and use his walk-in, a whole lot of hidden value there, plus he only charges $100. I have him cut to primals and sliceand wrap the chops and I butcher everything else ... in his LARGE, HEATED shop.
I agree with you on the loss of the value added stuff and it's really a shame to see that product thrown away! In any case, my bellies ended up being 2-3 inches thick so they should cure and slice to an acceptable thickness.

farmboy236 · Post by **farmboy236** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 20:14

Most of our processors (99%) here are custom exempt (NO requirement for HAACP Plans) , the State of Tennessee doesn't do inspections, so all or any inspection is done under USDA auspices. You know much better than I the cost of equipment and most of our small scale processors don't have the through-put to finance large scale equipment. My guy's most expensive piece of equipment (excluding refrigeration) is a Tor-Rey Grinder. He definitely qualifies as small scale!
Not to get all political and all but our regulation has become ONEROUS, to say the least and most all of it is slanted in favor of the large operation. The small processor doesn't have a lobby (read as $$$) to effect legislation in their favor. I will say though that it is (Government willing to listen) getting a little bit better, at least in this state.

Shuswap · Post by **Shuswap** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 20:53

Gee farmboy it sounds just like home - we are out of egg layers and meat birds because of onerous regs and governments distaste for small producers.

Post by **Butterbean** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 23:33

I'm all to familiar with the regulations concerning the small processor. Some of the requirements are just not possible for the small producer. Years ago we had three butchers in my small town. Each would slaughter animals on site and if you wanted would work off shares and take their portion and sell on their shelves. All locally raised and produced. These are gone now or just selling corporate meat. Its sad because this created good jobs which we need. It seems every time someone writes some terror story and scares the public they tighten the noose. I can assure you that if we had ever had a butcher who practiced unsafe practices in their shop word would spread like wildfire and they would have to shut their doors.

I raise livestock and can sell it locally. Wanted to have a kill facility but the cheapest I could arrange that would have been $135,000 and it takes a lot of volume to recover from this and volume is not what I was after. Just direct farm to table. What I have been able to do is carry animals to a USDA plant and have them kill them and me carry the inspected carcass back for further processing. This is relatively cheap since the processor needs to do so little. Its good for them and good for me.

farmboy236 · Post by **farmboy236** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 20:14

We used to sell at the Nashville Farmer's Market and locally but in order for me to,personally, process past whole carcass meant a retail butcher shop on site that was under state inspection. To set that up would have been in your ballpark $$$ figure. We can't kill but we can source USDA inspected products and have that operation state inspected. "Land of the Free " my a**! Oh Well, don't get me started down that slippery slope subject. We are getting ready to sell this farm and move to Coastal North Carolina and try again. I am going to open a Charcuterie operation using my own pigs. NC is very small farm friendly with a ton of resources to help you succeed; they even intercede in the Legislative process to keep an eye on small farm interests. Unlike Tennessee, North Carolina actually used the tobacco settlement money for farmers, as it was intended.

crustyo44 · Post by **crustyo44** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 22:45

Hi Farmboy,
Australia is exactly the same. All small dairy farms have closed due to government regulations and the only way to make a meagre living is to have a milking cow herd of at least 1200.
Just so that the big supermarkets can sell their white watery crap (used to be real milk) for under $ 1.00 a litre.
The time is approaching fast that in Australia fresh milk will be a thing of the past.
Politicians only have selective hearing.
Cheers Mate,
Jan.

Post by **Butterbean** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 18:50

Sounds about the same here. I'm state inspected and quickly learned the inspector makes all the difference in the world. One of the older guys offered to help me with some grant money they got from the tobacco settlement but I don't feel right about taking handouts and chose to go it alone. Some want to help you and some are ..... well they just seem upset that you are there to give them something to do. I'd prefer them to just leave me alone and they can keep their money. I could tell you some stories of the obstacles put in front of me but it would do no good and would only piss you off. But I'm hard headed and my advice to anyone who is interested in doing something like this is to remain hard headed and keep talking to the regulators and eventually you will find someone who gets it and has some common sense.