Bio Cultures by Chr. Hansen

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Post by Shuswap » Fri Mar 06, 2015 15:50

Red the note on storeage is interesting as it says the shelf life is 6 weeks if stored above 41F. This should mean that time in shipping to us is not critical if we store it in the freezer. Agreed :?:
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Post by redzed » Fri Mar 06, 2015 17:43

You are correct Phil. As I wrote in an earlier post, these freeze dried cultures survive quite well if their frozen state is interrupted for several days while in transit. But as Igor, who works in the industry in Europe pointed out, there will be a loss of a number of cell during that time. However, each packet of starter culture contains millions of bacteria cells, so in the end it probably will not affect the over all quality. I would just want my starter to be fresh and to have an expiry date as long as possible, and not languish anywhere in warm temps over 20C. I would recommend to all of us who buy starter cultures to buy them during the cooler months. So order your cultures now!

SafePro B-LC-007 is definitely the next culture that I will be buying. I like the composition of the different cultures and the fact that it keeps listeria at bay. That is so important when we ferment with cultures which acidify slowly so that we get that mild southern European flavour in our salami. Sacco Lyocarni has an excellent line of cultures that can also inhibit listeria, but these are still unavailable in Canada and I'm not sure where they can be sourced in the United States.

Craft Butcher's Pantry will ship to Canada, using Priority Mail International, 6-10 business days, for 19.50USD. And as I mentioned above, shipping to an US address is $7.
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Post by IdaKraut » Fri Mar 06, 2015 21:47

Hello Redzed,

As you may recall, I posted a year ago regarding my Landjager experiment where I used B-LC 007 with excellent results (but no one replied except for Igor so I assumed there was no interest in this new culture). The taste was as good as using T-SPX (mild acidification) with the added benefits that it prevents several nasty micros from multiplying. However, the cost is very high and I have since reverted back to using T-SPX and I make my Landjagers with only certified pork and no beef since I'm not crazy about getting E.coli. As a matter of fact, I just put 15 lbs of all pork LJ's in the fermentation chamber a short while ago.

Yes, I would definitely recommend B-LC 007 as the best culture that tastes like T-SPX for anyone that can use it to produce a large quantity of sausage within the limited (6 month) time frame from first opening the package but for me, I don't make enough fermented sausage to warrant the premium price.
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Post by redzed » Sat Mar 07, 2015 16:54

Hi Rudy,

Yes I remembered your discussions with Igor about using a combination of starter culture and culture and GDL but did not remember that it was B-LC 007 that you used. I looked for B-LC 007 but unfortunately the search function on our forum is a bit wonky and I could not get a direct hit. But when I just googled the culture there it was!

In the last few months I have been studying the various starter cultures that are available at the retail level for hobbyists and am becoming more and more convinced that cultures with the bio protective properties are the way go. Some of them them in fact claim that they will eliminate listeria 99% of the time! The 007 in the SafePro product B-LC 700 is a moniker taken from James Bond, the agent with a license to kill. :grin: The culture that I am currently using, Bitec LM- 1, also has protective effects.

Butcher Packer also sells B-LC 007 for $21.20, and while it costs a just a few dollars more than T-SPX, it works out to very little when you divide that into the several batches of fermented sausages that we make from one package. The Butcher's Craft Pantry also sells Bactoferm F-LC, a good versatile starter that also protects against listeria for $10, and Bactoferm Mold-600 for $12. I don't think anyone else can beat those prices.

And one more thing Rudy. Just because you may not get an immediate response to your post, does not mean that no one is reading it. We get hundreds of people here each day, and the forum gets mentioned often in other forums, blogs and Facebook pages. So a lot of people benefit from the information we share here. And I have always appreciated your posts and descriptions of your experiments. You are quite pedantic in your approach in that you want to understand the effects of the process and ingredients used, and I like that. It takes us way beyond the level of looking at some recipe with a measuring spoon in hand. Your current batch of landjaeger interests me since it is something that is on my list to make. Are you still using the same recipe? Recently I had some landjaeger from a Swiss owned producer in Canmore Alberta, Valbella's Meats. They use DGL and were not too bad.
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Post by IdaKraut » Sat Mar 07, 2015 18:23

Hello again Red,

I found adding GDL with the T-SPX to produce too much tang which made the Landjagers taste like they were made with LHP. Not to my liking anyway.

I use a modified recipe which closely uses the one posted by the Marianskis but I use less salt (2.8% total) and also I use twice as much white pepper, replace the cumin with coriander, add 0.15% garlic powder and of course ground caraway seeds which I think gives this sausage the signature flavor but was left out of the Marianskis recipe.

I've been ordering from the Sausagemaker.com since they have free shipping on orders over $49 but unfortunately they don't carry the B-LC 007 but have most of the others. Since I ordered some other stuff and my order was over $49 I got my T-SPX from them.
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Post by redzed » Sat Mar 07, 2015 18:37

Yes, the amount of tang is a personal thing, and in most of the landjaeger I have eaten it was definitely there. What size hog casings do you use? I currently have 32 and 40+ on hand, which one would you recommend?
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Post by IdaKraut » Sat Mar 07, 2015 18:43

I used 29 - 32mm hog casings. Much bigger than 32mm and they get too big and obviously take longer to dry. Just don't stuff the casings too full so they will flatten out nicely.
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Post by BriCan » Sun Mar 08, 2015 23:28

I concur with IdaKraut on the casings --- 29/32mm hog casings are the only way to go ... makes a better shape product that will fit comfortably in the pocket
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Post by DaveOmak » Wed Mar 11, 2015 01:52

Good afternoon or morning.... I'm Dave... been cruising this great forum for several years... I'm trying to get started into fermenting sausage... I just noticed the B-LC 007 on B&P site.... Seems very interesting.... I have looked all over and ended up here, trying to find some "reasonable" directions for use and expected results.... Seems the Canadian Sausage making outfit, for whom it was developed, kept this culture secret for several years...
Since I do not have a curing chamber, and I am partial to the aromatic Mediterranean sausages, I think this culture will be perfect and fit my lack of equipment..... Any advice will be appreciated....

Excerpt from Butcher & Packer.............
B-LC-007 is well-suited for all fermented sausages with a short production time. The final pH may be regulated by adjusting the amount of fermentable sugars added to the meat mince.


This is the first place I have found the amount to add................
Use 0.022% weight of the meat...

??? What type of sugar is recommended ??
And is there a recommended % sugar for a starting point for a certain pH.....

AND.... Is cure #2 recommended to add to this culture if I were to put the sausage in my smoker, or cure #1, or DO NOT ADD CURE.....
+++++++++++++++++
I found the thread by CW on "Why we add cure #2 to cultures".... Great read...
and CW, not to be crude but, "Are you ANAL about food safety"... LOL ... Me also...
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Post by Bob K » Wed Mar 11, 2015 13:19

Hi Dave welcome to the forum!

Many of your questions are too general to be properly addressed as there are too many variables.
Recipe will you be using and what type of sausage would narrow things down.

There is much information on fermented sausages on line here: http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... ed-sausage .
The Marianski book by the same author Fermented Sausages also goes into more detail and specifics.

Since you wish to make the dry fermented sausages and do not have a curing chamber your best chances for success would be using the UMAI bags. There is much info on them on this site and also the UMAI site.
Also starting out it is best to use a reliable , tested recipe to gain experience and then go on to experiment from there changing things like sugar amounts and types, Types of cultures used etc.
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Post by Africantanman » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:37

Hello good people!
I have been scouring all sources in this part of the world (Cape Town) for starter cultures and the only one readily available is CHR Hansen's Bactoferm TD-66. I plan on making a basic wild boar salami. Will this starter culture be suitable for what I want to do?

Thank you for any advice given! :smile:
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Post by Bob K » Tue Jun 30, 2015 18:09

TD-66 would work fine. It is formulated to be fermented at 68 - 75f.

Much info on different cultures here : http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... e/cultures

Use in any recipe calling for T-SPX.

When you come up with a final recipe/method post the details and we can help to fine tune the process like fermentation times and temps ect.
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Post by Bob K » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:38

Africantanman

Your post was moved to http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?p=31931#31931
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Post by Africantanman » Fri Jul 03, 2015 14:10

Much obliged!
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Post by Todd » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:43

Hey All

What are your thoughts on using Fermento vs. Bactoferm?
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