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uwanna61
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Post by uwanna61 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 02:26

Ross
In the past, I had this same experience; I blamed mine on poor mixing. Since I pulled out my 20# hand crank mixer, I have noticed a difference in my homemade salami products, just a thought bud.
Dave, it sounds like you are the only one who's clock is ticking straight
Clock ticking straight? Hold on their cowboy :mrgreen: I may have a few wrinkles but I`m rounding turn four, with a full head of steam to the finish line :wink:

Took a slice/taste test this evening and below is the result. Inside temperature set at 50 degrees and humidity at 72%
Taste also seems to be a little smoother with a good (no raw) mouth feel, and does not have the salty after taste as I reported a couple weeks back.

Image
Image
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Post by partycook » Thu Aug 04, 2011 03:09

A friend of mine has just shown me how to upload pictures from photo bucket. This is a test. Image[/img]
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Post by Chuckwagon » Thu Aug 04, 2011 04:46

Uwanna wrote:
have a few wrinkles but I`m rounding turn four, with a full head of steam to the finish line
Too funny :lol: !
And...
a little smoother with a good (no raw) mouth feel, and does not have the salty after taste as I reported a couple weeks back.
Wally, I stand corrected and am truly impressed. Splendid sir, just splendid! That is some of the finest definition I've seen. The color is just right and the slightly larger particles of fat are very nice against the solid lean. Very well done Wally!
I'm green with jealousy! (Mine is coming right along and looks pretty good). Tell me, Uwanna, did you include any of the optional spices-herbs in the mixture? What do you think of Allysanndra? Would you recommend it to others? I'm still chewin' on some of my last batch.
Your setup looks grand. I can tell you put a little work into your fermenting - drying chamber. Nice going pal.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
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Post by uwanna61 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 21:44

CW
No, I didn`t try any of the optional spice, I went with the standard recipe, thought about it, but opted out last minute.
I would definitely recommend and make again the Allysanndra and try the optional spice next time. The fennel and basil sounds right up my alley for the next batch. I`m lagging way behind on project S, which I`m itching to try, just need to free up my schedule one weekend soon! There are so many good looking recipes here on the forum; I don`t know which way to turn :razz:
Thanks once again CW for your help and taking the time to assist on these projects.
P.S. Any cheddar left, Mrs. CW?
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Post by Chuckwagon » Fri Aug 05, 2011 01:04

Uwanna wrote:
P.S. Any cheddar left, Mrs. CW?
You've got to be kidding! :lol: long gone! Shanks again...
Smokey Wagontrack (Mrs. CW)
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
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Post by uwanna61 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 02:04

Mother just got home from a business trip to Boston. Sat down to a wedge of Cabot cheddar with Salami Alassandra, and a glass of red wine. Peaceful evening on the patio doesn`t get any better :smile:
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Post by Chuckwagon » Fri Aug 05, 2011 04:10

Ross, cowboys have an ol` saying, "You don`t learn much when everything goes right".
I figure it this way... someday you`ll look back on all this... and probably plow right into a parked car! :shock:

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Chuckwagon
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Post by ssorllih » Fri Aug 05, 2011 04:41

I'll get back on that damned horse again but not this week. I have some turkey to grind and stuff..

Seasoned some chicken tonight with salt, pepper and coriander. Ground the pepper and coriander seed in a mortar added the salt and mixed it with the chicken pieces and added a handful of flour. Baked them at 400 for about an hour. That temperature carmelizes the dripping.
Ross- tightwad home cook
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Post by Chuckwagon » Fri Aug 05, 2011 09:59

Ross ol` friend,

Would you allow me to make a few observations without thinking that I am being critical? I`d like to offer my ideas and opinion of what has taken place in your salami. Again, I offer the following, not to be critical in any way, but to help you understand what may have happened.

On June 23rd, you reported RH 90% @ 60°F. - everything was looking fine until... At some point - I`m not sure when, but I suspect about July 9th - the rate of evaporation exceeded the rate of diffusion and created a "dry rim". I`m sure you will agree there is some evidence of "case hardening".

On July 9th, you reported, "For all intent and purposes I have the same problem as Uwanna 61. But it isn't from excess air flow my fan is very small and doesn't blow on the links. I am just gonna mist with distilled water twice each day."

The fan, blowing directly on the links or not, makes little difference if the ingress of air exceeded 2 miles per hour (as a prescribed amount of air is being exchanged). Without equilibrium, a normally diffused amount of moisture inside the sausage (I estimate about 20%) was not able to escape and became trapped inside as diffusion slowed to an almost negligible point, although your fan continued to provide an egress of moist air (provided by condensation of the ice) indicating that everything was normal. Yet, by this time, inside the sausage, the moist interior had become susceptible to pseudomonas spp. and other spoilage-type bacteria... some of which are even active at refrigerated temperatures. If I had to venture a guess, I`d say that the spoilage was well underway about the time you reported "blotches" of yeast growth.

Ross, I certainly hope you try again. Please don`t let this setback stop you from succeeding the next time. Once you find the right balance of humidity and temperature, I`m sure things will work out. You`ve got plenty of pals here to help you along. I`m honored to be one of them.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
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Post by ssorllih » Fri Aug 05, 2011 13:31

Good and valid observations, CW. There is a noticable taste of spoilage, not rank but to a sensitive palate it is there. I am almost certain that I had wide fluctuations in RH. I am studying on how to make this chamber more temperature anf humidity stable.
Ross- tightwad home cook
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Post by partycook » Fri Aug 05, 2011 17:00

Hey CW,
I am going to try this photobucket site. Image This one is of the Sopressata after 27 days.Image
The Salami di Alessanddra after 45 days.
Image and the pepperoni after 27 days. temp 57 degrees, humidity 75-80 per cent. fan is running as slow as I can get it without it stopping. So give me your suggestions and advice. Salami taste as of now a bit bland pepperoni is awesome.

John
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Post by uwanna61 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 22:40

Partycook
I do not claim to be a professional here by any means, but if I had to go out on a limb, to take a guess on these photos. I would say mixing of the salt, seasoning and especially the bactofirm is an issue to the off color, according to the photos.
I have had several small batches tossed into the trash, made the seagulls happy! Finally I turned to "The Art Of Making Fermented Sausage" by Stanley Marianski and along with all the friendly advice provided from the WD site. I realized that my hand mixing(with latex gloves) was not distributing all ingredients thoroughly throughout the batch.

The process of salami making starts when the salt hits the meat. This is when I pay close attention to details, example: I write down all mix times for each ingredient, salt, spice and cure and mix everything thoroughly. For the fermentation process, I record time and date, while keeping track of humidity and temperature, keeping in mind, the more consistent the humidity and temp levels are, the better chances of success. Then on to the incubation cycle and again keeping notes.
One thing I recently learned and bragged about, was my temp controller being spot on! Well it wasn`t, it was of 4 degrees higher from my baby dial thermometer "which I calibrate regularly" and is inside the (fridge) incubator. As I stated at the top, I`m not a pro at this, but I can say one thing, since joining up with the friendly folks here, I have gained valuable info.

Just my 2cents :wink:
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Post by uwanna61 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 22:42

I figure it this way... someday you`ll look back on all this... and probably plow right into a parked car!
Parked car :?: oouch :!:
Ross
I would go out smoke the heck out of a turkey or chicken (in your smoker of course :wink: ) and when the weather cools down a bit, get right back at it! Heck we could start with project S together? We will make a sopressata at the end of this month when the weather cools down, hopefully? We can do a 5 lb batch to see how it goes.
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Post by Chuckwagon » Fri Aug 05, 2011 23:42

Uwanna wrote:
I do not claim to be a professional here by any means
Wally, ol' pard... I MUST disagree with you!
I believe that anyone who can study and heed instructions, learn from others, learn from your own failures, be humble enough to claim he`s not a pro, then turn out a finished product like you have, is indeed a professional! To be quite frank, I`ve examined the close-up photo of your Allysanndra and I believe it is a better quality sausage than the ones in the cover photo on the book, "The Art Of Charcuterie", by Kowalski from the Culinary Art Institute Of America. Of course, I haven`t tasted it and by no means am I presenting myself as an expert or judge. It is simply my opinion. If one looks closely at the structure of the texture in the solid mass, one may realize why you have indeed made the statement:
"I realized that my hand mixing(with latex gloves) was not distributing all ingredients thoroughly throughout the batch."

I totally agree Wally. Furthermore, you wrote:
"The process of salami making starts when the salt hits the meat. This is when I pay close attention to details, example: I write down all mix times for each ingredient, salt, spice and cure and mix everything thoroughly. For the fermentation process, I record time and date, while keeping track of humidity and temperature, keeping in mind, the more consistent the humidity and temp levels are, the better chances of success. Then on to the incubation cycle and again keeping notes."
Now, if that isn`t the indication of a professional, what is? Wally, I realize you were very well practiced in making salami when you joined our WD membership. Nevertheless, you were willing to look at the craft anew and open your mind to the techniques of others and new ideas. This, in my opinion, is the reason you will always succeed in anything you put your hand to. You know, Wally, the "pride" in people is a funny thing. It has very much been my observation that many ol` timers and even folks who "think" they are successful in charcuterie, often present themselves as "above" the techniques and especially the suggestions of others. Many who need help the most, appear to be too "proud" to accept it. In reality, it is those folks who do accept help from others... that most often go on to succeed beyond their wildest dreams. Ok Uwanna, I`ll hop down off the soapbox now. I just thought I`d tell you that I indeed consider you a pro!

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Last edited by Chuckwagon on Fri Jun 29, 2012 09:39, edited 1 time in total.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
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Post by Chuckwagon » Fri Aug 05, 2011 23:59

Hi Partycook,
Thanks for checkin' in. You said:
temp 57 degrees, humidity 75-80 per cent. fan is running as slow as I can get it without it stopping. So give me your suggestions and advice. Salami taste as of now a bit bland pepperoni is awesome.
Would it be possible to take a few close-ups (the closer - the better) and still remain in focus. Also, please shine a light directly on the sausage as you photograph it. I would really like to examine the texture and color a bit closer. It sounds like the RH and temp are just about right and if I were you, I believe I'd probably cut off the fan at this point. Please let me know if you think total acidification has occurred. You described the taste of the salami as "bland". Would you attribute it to poor lactic acid development? Perhaps, you are just too used to American "quickly" fermented salami in the stores. Is there a deep and pronounced "flavor" in the salami? Also, please describe the texture.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
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