Hi there, bit of a heavy question for a newbie but hope some of you can help?
I'm doing my first dry cured ham in the proscuitto style and using the instructions given in Marianski's book "Home Production of Quality meats and sausages," (page 455) on that page it indicates that the ham should be allowed to cure for 3 days per pound, is this correct? as shown on page 448 (under salting a Serrano ham) it says it should be cured for 3 days per kilogram, a massive difference, in my particular case it would be 49 days if using the pound calculation and 22 days if using the kilo calc !!, I was tending towars 22 days but am starting to doubt myself, FYI the ham is bone out and it is being weighted down as suggested
It could be an expensive mistake if I don't get this right!!
Please could you also advise, I have had the leg tunnel boned and have rubbed the cure thoroughly into the resulting area where the bone was, tell me, when I eventually wash off the ham should I also wash the inside of the ham, I asume I have to otherwise the ham would contginue to be cured and I don't want that ?.
Many thanks
First Proscuitto hope you can help?
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Chuckwagon
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Hi Ped,
Let's see what a real pro has to say about this. That would be Story28 from the TLP in Washington D.C. His name is Jason and he's my pal. I'll rattle his chain and see what he has to say about it. Stand by... it's six in the morning here and he hasn't got his eyes open yet!
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Let's see what a real pro has to say about this. That would be Story28 from the TLP in Washington D.C. His name is Jason and he's my pal. I'll rattle his chain and see what he has to say about it. Stand by... it's six in the morning here and he hasn't got his eyes open yet!
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! 
I paid Chuckwagon in exchange for a few kind words. 
. But, I think I can help.
As you will note in your book, you will see a variance of 4-7% salt concentration for cured ham. What isn't noticed is the different cure times for different styles of ham. The reference you made on page 455 is what I believe to be an extension of Mr. Marianski's mention of country ham.
If you note the header "Formulations from the past" you can deduce a few things. We know that in the past hams were cured for stability and not for that perfect balance of salt and flavor. You will also note a doubled rate of cure time for bacon. Another notation is the mention of an fair amount of sugar in the basic cure. Sugar helps combat excessive saltiness. More important is the fact that sugar is hydroscopic and pulls away moisture (another good trick for those only concerned about stability.) In most European dry cured hams you don't see anything but sea salt in the cure.
Next, think of the taste of country ham. It is far saltier than a European dry cured ham. We never turned our nose up here in the U.S. to make a gourmet, food snob ham, and so our old-heads keep to tradition, salting the hell out of their hams. In Europe they have developed a market for fancy hams and their main focus is optimal flavor. Maybe that has some relation to why a pound of good Jamon Iberico costs more than a 16 pound country ham from Nancy Newsom or Allan Benton.
For the next point, I might be mistaken or have a different edition of the book but on page 448, my book says "A rule of thumb calls for 2 days for each 1 kg of meat..." I do not see anywhere that mentions 3 days per kilogram under the manufacturing and process for Spanish hams.
So how does your ham fit into all this? Your ham is de-boned, which means it has a higher surface to mass ratio than a bone-in, skin-on ham. That means your ham will take in salt at a much faster rate than a skin-on, bone-in ham. Fat and skin is far less permeable than meat so I believe you should opt for a 2 day per kilo curing time with a 5-6% salt concentration. The saltier the safer. But, the saltier the saltier - if you catch my drift.
Your next question was about the cavity where the bone was removed. You should definitely salt the cavity since that will be the exact place molds and other baddies have a party on your ham once it is in its ripening stage.
I am a bit concerned about the bone being removed. Does the ham look like a giant donut, or was it butterflied open along the bone? If so, how cleanly was it butchered? Are their slit edges? In either case, you want to make sure that you have absolutely no air pockets in that center. If you are going to truss the ham after salting, (and you should), you need to do the job perfectly. Their will be no access for vinegar baths once you tie it up.
If the prospect of trussing isn't possible, I would consider turning this particular ham into an adaptation of speck, which is a flattened, deboned hind leg (or sometimes front shoulder) of the pig. This is traditionally hung in the chimney in Alto Adige, Italy where it picks up smoke flavor. If you were to cold smoke this product, you would add another level of resilience to spoilage, which is a good thing in your first time around.
Lastly, did you get the idea to de-bone the ham or was it given to you that way? Deboned prosciutto is done after the ripening is complete and the product is sewn back together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnVZXD_p3M
Well, I hope this helps. If I can help in any way, feel free to ask. I am never more than a message from Chuckwagon away.
. But, I think I can help.As you will note in your book, you will see a variance of 4-7% salt concentration for cured ham. What isn't noticed is the different cure times for different styles of ham. The reference you made on page 455 is what I believe to be an extension of Mr. Marianski's mention of country ham.
If you note the header "Formulations from the past" you can deduce a few things. We know that in the past hams were cured for stability and not for that perfect balance of salt and flavor. You will also note a doubled rate of cure time for bacon. Another notation is the mention of an fair amount of sugar in the basic cure. Sugar helps combat excessive saltiness. More important is the fact that sugar is hydroscopic and pulls away moisture (another good trick for those only concerned about stability.) In most European dry cured hams you don't see anything but sea salt in the cure.
Next, think of the taste of country ham. It is far saltier than a European dry cured ham. We never turned our nose up here in the U.S. to make a gourmet, food snob ham, and so our old-heads keep to tradition, salting the hell out of their hams. In Europe they have developed a market for fancy hams and their main focus is optimal flavor. Maybe that has some relation to why a pound of good Jamon Iberico costs more than a 16 pound country ham from Nancy Newsom or Allan Benton.
For the next point, I might be mistaken or have a different edition of the book but on page 448, my book says "A rule of thumb calls for 2 days for each 1 kg of meat..." I do not see anywhere that mentions 3 days per kilogram under the manufacturing and process for Spanish hams.
So how does your ham fit into all this? Your ham is de-boned, which means it has a higher surface to mass ratio than a bone-in, skin-on ham. That means your ham will take in salt at a much faster rate than a skin-on, bone-in ham. Fat and skin is far less permeable than meat so I believe you should opt for a 2 day per kilo curing time with a 5-6% salt concentration. The saltier the safer. But, the saltier the saltier - if you catch my drift.
Your next question was about the cavity where the bone was removed. You should definitely salt the cavity since that will be the exact place molds and other baddies have a party on your ham once it is in its ripening stage.
I am a bit concerned about the bone being removed. Does the ham look like a giant donut, or was it butterflied open along the bone? If so, how cleanly was it butchered? Are their slit edges? In either case, you want to make sure that you have absolutely no air pockets in that center. If you are going to truss the ham after salting, (and you should), you need to do the job perfectly. Their will be no access for vinegar baths once you tie it up.
If the prospect of trussing isn't possible, I would consider turning this particular ham into an adaptation of speck, which is a flattened, deboned hind leg (or sometimes front shoulder) of the pig. This is traditionally hung in the chimney in Alto Adige, Italy where it picks up smoke flavor. If you were to cold smoke this product, you would add another level of resilience to spoilage, which is a good thing in your first time around.
Lastly, did you get the idea to de-bone the ham or was it given to you that way? Deboned prosciutto is done after the ripening is complete and the product is sewn back together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnVZXD_p3M
Well, I hope this helps. If I can help in any way, feel free to ask. I am never more than a message from Chuckwagon away.
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Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Jason, thanks so much for your reply. Your advice is appreciated by many folks I`m sure, including me. I would remind people that Jason and Carolina went to culinary school together and becoming chefs, they opened their own charcuterie business called "Three Little Pigs" in Washington D.C. Don`t miss their menu! Here is the link: http://threelittlepigsdc.com/Menu.aspx
Thanks again pal,
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
Thanks again pal,
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill!
Well what a fantastically concise response, thank you Jason, here are some answers to your quieries:
Firstly, can I say that my ham has been curing in the fridge for 14 days.
I now understand the days per pound or kilo and will stick with the kilo formula as I am seeking optimum flavour, the ham weighs 7.5 kilos bone out so I will be curing for 15 days and not the 22 days I previously quoted, do you think that would be better or should I compromise with a number of days between 22 and 15? (but I really don't want it too salty)
I have used a 5% salt ratio and have thoroughly rubbed most of the cure into the flesh inside the doughnut cavity, this has then been put in the fridge to maintain a temp of approx 4degs C with humidity currently running on average about 90%, the ham is on a tilt so that excess fluids drain off and it also being pressed down by a wooden board with weights equivelant to twice the hams weight on top. I have to admit that the internal surface of the flesh is not as neat as I would like it but as it is being pressed by the weights I think pretty much all the air has be pushed out!!
So to the next stage:
Once I have cured to the requisite number of days should I then thoroughly wash the ham both within the cavity and outside, surely this must be the case otherwise it will continue to cure and become increasingly saltier?, I was not intending to truss the ham as it is being pressed
Next, my intention (very happy to be corrected!) was to ripen/equalize it in muslin cloth in the fridge for the requisite period (again being pressed under the same weight) then bring out , remove muslin, wipe down with wine vinegar (should it be full concentrate or diluted?) and then cover again with muslin and hang to dry for several months (if I don't eat it in the mean time
)
If you think I should abort this attempt at making proscuitto please say, I am very happy to change course and make something else but would really appreciate your guidance on what it could be?. You mention Schinken, is there anything else and could I perhaps halve the ham (across the leg or down the leg?) to make more than one thing? and if so should I butterfly it as well?
So many questions but I hope you can reassure me?, by the way, the pig was a Large White cross Gloucester Old Spot so the meat has fantastic flavour so I really don't want it to spoil or for me to spoil it
Thank you very much in advance
Ped
Firstly, can I say that my ham has been curing in the fridge for 14 days.
I now understand the days per pound or kilo and will stick with the kilo formula as I am seeking optimum flavour, the ham weighs 7.5 kilos bone out so I will be curing for 15 days and not the 22 days I previously quoted, do you think that would be better or should I compromise with a number of days between 22 and 15? (but I really don't want it too salty)
I have used a 5% salt ratio and have thoroughly rubbed most of the cure into the flesh inside the doughnut cavity, this has then been put in the fridge to maintain a temp of approx 4degs C with humidity currently running on average about 90%, the ham is on a tilt so that excess fluids drain off and it also being pressed down by a wooden board with weights equivelant to twice the hams weight on top. I have to admit that the internal surface of the flesh is not as neat as I would like it but as it is being pressed by the weights I think pretty much all the air has be pushed out!!
So to the next stage:
Once I have cured to the requisite number of days should I then thoroughly wash the ham both within the cavity and outside, surely this must be the case otherwise it will continue to cure and become increasingly saltier?, I was not intending to truss the ham as it is being pressed
Next, my intention (very happy to be corrected!) was to ripen/equalize it in muslin cloth in the fridge for the requisite period (again being pressed under the same weight) then bring out , remove muslin, wipe down with wine vinegar (should it be full concentrate or diluted?) and then cover again with muslin and hang to dry for several months (if I don't eat it in the mean time
) If you think I should abort this attempt at making proscuitto please say, I am very happy to change course and make something else but would really appreciate your guidance on what it could be?. You mention Schinken, is there anything else and could I perhaps halve the ham (across the leg or down the leg?) to make more than one thing? and if so should I butterfly it as well?
So many questions but I hope you can reassure me?, by the way, the pig was a Large White cross Gloucester Old Spot so the meat has fantastic flavour so I really don't want it to spoil or for me to spoil it
Thank you very much in advance
Ped
I'm happy to help.
Being that your ham has a fair amount of meat exposed and will take salt in quickly and easily, I would personally stick to the minimum number of days. To play it safe, you could add a day or two. One indicator to look for is all of the salt having been absorbed into the meat. It is important to apply salt to hams carefully, because if too much spills off to the side, and ends up being liquefied by the moisture removed from the ham, it can give a false impression that the ham has taken in that salt.
The air may appear to be pressed out of the ham currently, but when you eventually hang it, without something to bind it tightly (trussing, netting) there will be movement and settling. Also, as the ham ages it will lose mass, and so what was a tight fit in the beginning is a gaping crevice in the end. If the flesh was "butchered", I would be concerned about not binding it. Even if it was expertly butchered along the seam of the top round I would still be concerned if it was not bound.
Most producers rinse, but not all of them do. Allan Benton told me they do not rinse because by the time the ham takes all the salt it is given, there is nothing to rinse off. Maybe he is holding out on me (and I don`t think he would. He is open and honest when I talk to him). Anyways, I had a little issue when I tried that method. As we hung it, we had quite a bit of rapid mold growth on the ham. We didn't experience that with any of the 28 other country hams we hung that were rinsed. However, after one nice vinegar bath (2 parts water 1 part apple cider vinegar) we haven`t had any more problems with that ham. It will be interesting to see what happens when it heats up outside. Anyways, I would rinse your ham inside and out and blot the product dry with a clean towel.
If you equalize under a weight, you have two points of direct contact with a surface. That will inhibit drying in those places. This could cause uneven drying or mold build up depending on humidity and the microflora in your area. I would also advise encasing the meat in a ham stocking so you can better monitor and remedy potential mold buildup. Also, you may find that the muslin bag impedes airflow and moisture removal. You can always increase or decrease humidity or airspeed, but you can`t change how tightly woven the fibers are on the muslin bag.
I don`t think you should abort making prosciutto, but I wouldn't try to turn something into prosciutto that isn`t. You need the skin, you need the bone, and you need that heavy fat cap. What I would do is buy a skin on, aitch bone perfectly removed, shank bone perfectly sawed ham, and make your prosciutto from that. For the ham you have now, I would advise speck. Culatello is an option but the top, bottom, and eye rounds must be cut fairly exact. This is pretty technical stuff, and requires trussing of the meat, sewing of a hog bladder or stomach, and trussing of the bladder itself. In this case, you would be left with salted trim meat, which isn`t good for much. What would be good for much is opening that meat up by cutting an end, preferably at a seam in the muscle structure. I would then trim out any flappy meat left behind from when the ham was deboned and continue on.
It might not be the happiest answer, but it is what I would honestly do in that situation.
Being that your ham has a fair amount of meat exposed and will take salt in quickly and easily, I would personally stick to the minimum number of days. To play it safe, you could add a day or two. One indicator to look for is all of the salt having been absorbed into the meat. It is important to apply salt to hams carefully, because if too much spills off to the side, and ends up being liquefied by the moisture removed from the ham, it can give a false impression that the ham has taken in that salt.
The air may appear to be pressed out of the ham currently, but when you eventually hang it, without something to bind it tightly (trussing, netting) there will be movement and settling. Also, as the ham ages it will lose mass, and so what was a tight fit in the beginning is a gaping crevice in the end. If the flesh was "butchered", I would be concerned about not binding it. Even if it was expertly butchered along the seam of the top round I would still be concerned if it was not bound.
Most producers rinse, but not all of them do. Allan Benton told me they do not rinse because by the time the ham takes all the salt it is given, there is nothing to rinse off. Maybe he is holding out on me (and I don`t think he would. He is open and honest when I talk to him). Anyways, I had a little issue when I tried that method. As we hung it, we had quite a bit of rapid mold growth on the ham. We didn't experience that with any of the 28 other country hams we hung that were rinsed. However, after one nice vinegar bath (2 parts water 1 part apple cider vinegar) we haven`t had any more problems with that ham. It will be interesting to see what happens when it heats up outside. Anyways, I would rinse your ham inside and out and blot the product dry with a clean towel.
If you equalize under a weight, you have two points of direct contact with a surface. That will inhibit drying in those places. This could cause uneven drying or mold build up depending on humidity and the microflora in your area. I would also advise encasing the meat in a ham stocking so you can better monitor and remedy potential mold buildup. Also, you may find that the muslin bag impedes airflow and moisture removal. You can always increase or decrease humidity or airspeed, but you can`t change how tightly woven the fibers are on the muslin bag.
I don`t think you should abort making prosciutto, but I wouldn't try to turn something into prosciutto that isn`t. You need the skin, you need the bone, and you need that heavy fat cap. What I would do is buy a skin on, aitch bone perfectly removed, shank bone perfectly sawed ham, and make your prosciutto from that. For the ham you have now, I would advise speck. Culatello is an option but the top, bottom, and eye rounds must be cut fairly exact. This is pretty technical stuff, and requires trussing of the meat, sewing of a hog bladder or stomach, and trussing of the bladder itself. In this case, you would be left with salted trim meat, which isn`t good for much. What would be good for much is opening that meat up by cutting an end, preferably at a seam in the muscle structure. I would then trim out any flappy meat left behind from when the ham was deboned and continue on.
It might not be the happiest answer, but it is what I would honestly do in that situation.
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Chuckwagon
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- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Speck it is then , I guess now the question is..... is there any chance that you are prepared to tell me what I have to do to produce this?, will I need to butterfly and then cut the Ham into smaller pieces (3 bits perhaps?), unfortunatley I didn't add any spices (juniper, bay, peppercorn etc) will this ruin it?, and also I understand there is some cold smoking involved?, which is'nt a problem. If there is any chance you can give direction I would really appreciate it (bet you can do without dealing with me whilst you have a restaurant to run 
)
, I guess now the question is..... is there any chance that you are prepared to tell me what I have to do to produce this?, will I need to butterfly and then cut the Ham into smaller pieces (3 bits perhaps?), unfortunatley I didn't add any spices (juniper, bay, peppercorn etc) will this ruin it?, and also I understand there is some cold smoking involved?, which is'nt a problem. If there is any chance you can give direction I would really appreciate it (bet you can do without dealing with me whilst you have a restaurant to run )Well, having read up on Speck it really needs to be spiced with various things, can you suggest a method of infusing the ham with some of these flavours since it is now cured?, I can add flavours like Juniper berries, bay leaves and even corriander seed to the smoke I suppose but I'm not sure this will give the correct sort of flavouring, I would have thought it may be a bit harsh, what do you think?
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Chuckwagon
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- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
Ped, invariably, the first mistake beginners make in any sausage-making effort, is adding too much spice or herbs trying to discover the "perfect" seasoning. Believe me, in the thousands of years in sauage-making history, virtually every combination has been tried. The ol` timers who really make great products discovered long ago that it isn`t what you put into sausage, rather it is what you DON`T put into it that make it desirable. Mommy nature, for some reason, really blessed the porky pigger with great flavor all on its own! Probably because it is so hard to get the animal to use lipstick and "get perty"!
It`s just my advice, but if I were you, I`d forget everything but the salt and pepper. Allow the natural flavor to shine through.
On the other hand, if you are crafting a breakfast sausage, you should be aware that over time, we humans, for one reason or another, have come to prefer a combination of thyme, ginger, sage, and a trace of sugar in the mixture. There`s just nothing else like it.
Other sausages or meats usually have one (or two) "signature" spices in it. Such is the case of marjoram in Polish sausage or fennel in Italian sausage.
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
It`s just my advice, but if I were you, I`d forget everything but the salt and pepper. Allow the natural flavor to shine through.
On the other hand, if you are crafting a breakfast sausage, you should be aware that over time, we humans, for one reason or another, have come to prefer a combination of thyme, ginger, sage, and a trace of sugar in the mixture. There`s just nothing else like it.
Other sausages or meats usually have one (or two) "signature" spices in it. Such is the case of marjoram in Polish sausage or fennel in Italian sausage.
Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill!
-
Chuckwagon
- Veteran
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 04:51
- Location: Rocky Mountains
