Starting making my first batch of fermented sausages

Cabonaia · Post by **Cabonaia** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 22:04

markjass wrote:I do not know if prior freezing a whole muscle would have a negative effect on cured ham/coppa etc.

Hi Mark - you can make great ham and coppa from pork that has been frozen. In fact, since you will be eating uncooked meat with these products, it is considered a good practice to freeze it for a period of time to eliminate the risk of trichinosis. Formulas for how long to freeze at how low a temperature are on this forum, I think, and not hard to find on the internet.

Cheers,
Jeff

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 23:19

Hi Mark

I must admit that the sudden rise in pH sounds disturbing to me and rather contradictory to norms. Or at least to my own experience.

An increase in pH level may occur when ripening with mould - but then we speak about an effect over weeks - not four days.

And considering the average dosage of fermentable sugar in the Pepperoni, there should be plenty of acid formation to ensure a permanent drop below pH 5.3 by now.

What I continuously wonder about is the high start pH of 7,2.
I´m pretty sure that a german producer of raw hams and salami would reject meat with such a high pH.
Optimally it should have been between 6,2 and 5,8.
7.2 is good if you want to make emulsified sausages Frankfurter / Hotdog style with a good water binding - but not for salami.

Also I wonder if it might be overtaxing the Biobak Ultra Plus to let it work from such a high outset pH as 7.2 ( I better ask HQ about this topic

).

Perhaps a starter culture with a slightly more aggresive acidifyer strain (like Curvatus or Plantarum) would have been more appropriate in this situation, but I think the best thing for you would be to make sure thet the pH of the meat is not higher than 6.2 when you start preparing it.

Otherwise just follow your intentions of lowering temperature and humidity.
However, with the present high pH don´t expect the sausages to dry out right away, and I would not let the humidity get under 70- 75% for the next couple of days.

Post by **redzed** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 01:30

Mark,

How are you measuring the Ph?

markjass · Post by **markjass** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 13:05

I think I have worked out what I was doing that altered the results. Because I did not want to use so much sausage I cut down the sample size, but kept the ratio the same. ie. 1 part sausage to 2 parts water (have a digital ph meter).
At first I was using about 10-15 grams of sausage and 20 to 30 g of water. The later tests I was cutting down on the sausage sample size. I think that had skewered the results. Today I have used a larger sample size. This has meant that the probe has been deeper in the liquid.

I twigged this after redzed's comment and finding a video on you tube. Both of the last two recordings of the chorizo have been 5.3 and the pepperoni has been flicking between 5.3 and 5.4. The temperature for the last two readings (96 and 108 hrs) has been 16 degrees and the humidity about 85. Tomorrow I will weigh the sausages and then this time tomorrow evening I will drop the temperature to 12-14 degrees and start the drying phase.

Since dropping the temperature to 16 degrees the sausages have slightly hardened up. There is no mould present. I wonder if I cold smoke the sausages on Saturday in light smoke for a couple of hours if this will discourage mould growing. If I do not do it then I will wait until they reach goal weight.

I am a visual person and am graphing the data on excel I would post the graph on the sight if I knew how.

markjass · Post by **markjass** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 02:03

The ph has been stable for nearley 24 hours. The pepperoni is 5.4 and the Chorizo at 5.3. The temperature has remained at 16 degrees and the humidity about 85%. Will leave settings at this for a few more days.

first few pin head beads of moisture on some of the sausages. Have turned on the fan.
Also first pin prick size of white mould. Fan may help with this. Also wiped sausages with very dilute solution of vinegar. May give the sausages a light smoking tomorrow (no heat in smoker and probably be a frost in morning). Any thoughts?

Post by **redzed** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 07:25

In an earlier post you indicated that the Ph of Christchurch water was 8.2. You then mix 2 parts of that water with one part meat and take that as the Ph reading for the sausage? That, to me, appears to be the problem. If you have a meter with a proper meat probe all you need to do is to stick it into the sausage for the reading. I am quite positive that your numbers will be considerably lower,

What I have done since I got my meter, I reserve the meat left in the stuffer for testing purposes. I form a ball, slightly larger than a tennis ball, loosely wrap it in paper and ferment it with the sausages and use it to test the Ph. I also transfer the test ball to the curing chamber and continue to study it by squeezing it, checking it for visual changes and continue taking Ph readings.

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 16:56

Hi Mark,

I'm totally on par with Red. That method of pH reading is unknown to me and the diluting of the raw material may explain the, for me, strange values.
As Red said metering should be done with the probe directly into the mass. Why don't you try it ?

PH 5.3 is just about right. 5.4 not if you now start lowering the humidity to under 80% If the water molecules don't start letting go of the proteins you may risc dry rim and a core that won't dry out properly.

Getting the balance right between inside sausage moisture and outside (climate chamber) humidity can be tricky.
My thumb rule is, better keep fermenting if you're in doubt because once you expose the sausage to drying out it'll be pretty hard to get consistency right if pH didn't "get down there".

markjass · Post by **markjass** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 08:33

My ph tester is primary for testing the ph of solutions. For aquariums you just dip it in warer, For soil you get the run off or or place the soil two parts soil to one part soil.

"pH testing paper strips
To use, mix 1 part finely chopped meat and 2 parts distilled water, tear off a strip of pH paper, dip into test solution, and match immediately to color chart. No technical training is necessary." From http://www.meatsandsausages.com/

That is why I used this method of measuring ph. I do like the idea of a spear tester. I wonder how much they will cost + good makes

Post by **redzed** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 15:43

That is why I think your pH readings are not accurate. Your meter is not meant for meat. Using alkaline water with a reading of 8.2 will no doubt skew the results. And with all due respect to Marianski, I'm sceptical of his instructions regarding the use of any pH testing strips for this purpose. I tried it several times and it was frustrating and ineffective. There are strips made especially for the the purpose of testing meat so that if you don't have a proper meter, you can go that route.

http://www.merckmillipore.com/chemicals ... chments=PI

The strips you buy at the drug store were crafted to test urine and not meat.

markjass · Post by **markjass** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 04:33

Been phoning around NZ companies that sell ph meters. Either have the spear attached to the bulb or a probe attached to a seperate meter. They cost between $750 (576 USD) to $850 (653 USD). The probes/spears have to be changed overtime and start about $350.
No onder with this as a cost (digital testing is a mandatory requirement for selling the product) you cannot buy fermented sausages at farmers market and very few butchers sell their own.

markjass · Post by **markjass** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 05:47

Thanks redzed. Looked at the link. Spent an hour trying to sort out registration and order. Then phoned the NZ contact. Phoned them they said that I had to be a company to buy off them as online you have to have set up an account. To cash order I pay first, they then place the order on Monday and it will take 4 yes 4 weeks to get the strips to NZ. Then I am not sure how long after that it will take to get the strips to me. There is no where in NZ that sells them.

Post by **redzed** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 07:37

Mark, I have this meter for about 6 months and so far it has performed quite well. At least two other guys on the forum have also purchased it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Soil-Meter-Hard ... B003ZZ1B7I

markjass · Post by **markjass** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 08:33

Thank you. That is worth thinking about. With the high NZ dollar that makes it a better deal. Unfortunatly they do not ship to NZ. This means that there is a NZ company with sole import rights. I looked it up and there is. THey do not list the price. I will email them and check the price (sky high I suspect). I will then check their price with the price of sending it to my parents in the UK and them posting it on to me.

These are the questions I have asked them:

Re Lutron Soil PH Meter, PH212.
Do you have it in stock in NZ, if not how long will it take to get hold of it?
What is the price of this?
What is the price of postage?
How often do you have to re-calibrate it?
How much is replacement buffer solution?
How many times is it before I have to replace the spear or do I have to replace the whole unit (using it to measure the ph of homemade salami)?
What is the unit`s life expectancy (normal use not dropping the thing etc)?
What type of batteries does it use?

Post by **redzed** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 16:33

I bought mine from these guys in Germany. (The meter is made in Taiwan). It came within a week and I paid around 160 CDN.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PH-METER-TESTER- ... 1c359d9f6e

They ship to NZ.

markjass · Post by **markjass** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 01:49

Had a good reply. It will cost me $269 nzd (217 CDN). NZ has many things going for it, but not the price of electrical goods. This is not surprising considering the market size and how many hands goods pass through.

Many NZ companies are pressurising the gvt (a lot of sympathy and trying to work out how to do it) to place an extra tax on imported goods bought online to level the playing field. I am dead against this. I think that companies need to be more innovative, work on the service that they offer, speed of delivery and post purchase back up. One major thing is that if personally imported things are not guaranteed by the sole importer unless you buy through them.