Starting making my first batch of fermented sausages
Temperature problem
Over the weekend it has been unseasonably hot. I had left my curing chamber on heat to 12.5 degrees. This has worked well. My plan is to set the fridge to cool to 12.5 in warmer months.
Just got home after being away for just over a day and a half. My chamber shows an internal temperature of 17 degrees c. I have not returned my data logger into my fridge after I checked it before I went away. Should I throw the sausages away or is it going to be safe to keep them?
There is also some cured beef and pork drying in there. I have a feeling that this will be safe.
Just got home after being away for just over a day and a half. My chamber shows an internal temperature of 17 degrees c. I have not returned my data logger into my fridge after I checked it before I went away. Should I throw the sausages away or is it going to be safe to keep them?
There is also some cured beef and pork drying in there. I have a feeling that this will be safe.
Hi Red Zed I bought the ph spear from the German company. After an overnight hitch the order went through. They had told me how much the postage was, but had not put this on ebay. I had commited to the purchase, but was stuck until they sorted it. It is going into the post on Monday. The saving from them was 62 NZD.
Thank You for your continual help
Thank You for your continual help
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kiwihunter
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- Location: palmerston north
Update
Thank you kiwi hunter. When I was looking they only had expired stock. They were selling it at nearly 50% reduction and they clamimed that it was still viable. I do not know how long it would be of use. I decided against it.
The sausages have been stuffed into pork hanks. After 10 days of drying at 12.5 degrees (except for last few hours) and 80% humidity: the pepperoni have lost 11.28% of their weight (aim is 30%) and Chorizo 8.4% of their weight (aim is 30%).
The sausages had a bit of mould on them. I wiped them down. I last did this 9 days ago. Is that suggesting that I have not got things correct. The fan is going slowley. Through my gloves the sausages felt tacky but firmer than when I last touched them a week ago. They do look a bit anemic. If anything goes wrong I will not hesitate to throw them away.
The oval marks on the sausages at the back resulted from where the two sausages were touching.
The sausages have been stuffed into pork hanks. After 10 days of drying at 12.5 degrees (except for last few hours) and 80% humidity: the pepperoni have lost 11.28% of their weight (aim is 30%) and Chorizo 8.4% of their weight (aim is 30%).
The sausages had a bit of mould on them. I wiped them down. I last did this 9 days ago. Is that suggesting that I have not got things correct. The fan is going slowley. Through my gloves the sausages felt tacky but firmer than when I last touched them a week ago. They do look a bit anemic. If anything goes wrong I will not hesitate to throw them away.
The oval marks on the sausages at the back resulted from where the two sausages were touching.
an update
Sausages look a bit blotchy and un even in colour. After 16 days of drying they have lost 15 and 17% of their weight. They are still squezable and a sticky. The temperature is 12.5 degrees C and the humidity is 82%. The humidifier has not been on for days. We are in early spring and the humidity has varied between 70 and 80% (met service). It is supposed to rain for the next few days. Since the light smoking there has been no sign of mould. Any comments?
In the bottom corner there is some Breslor drying, out of site there is some pork loin drying. Both were cured and lightly smoked.
In the bottom corner there is some Breslor drying, out of site there is some pork loin drying. Both were cured and lightly smoked.
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Igor Duńczyk
- Passionate
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 23:41
- Location: Croatia
Hi Mark,
I say like Red; just let the process continue and follow his advice.
However, it seems to me that something went wrong with the fermentation, as if the needed pH drop below 5,3 has been a (far too) long time coming despite your otherwise right temperature and humidity parameters.
Rather than blaiming the Wiberg Starter Culture, I'm interested to know if you could check up with your meat supplier if they've got a clue about the pH of the meat when they sell it.
As said before, meat from freshly slaughtered young animals should not find it's way into a salami.
The waterbinding capacity as well as pH value is far too high. Ask instead for meat from old mature animals.
I say like Red; just let the process continue and follow his advice.
However, it seems to me that something went wrong with the fermentation, as if the needed pH drop below 5,3 has been a (far too) long time coming despite your otherwise right temperature and humidity parameters.
Rather than blaiming the Wiberg Starter Culture, I'm interested to know if you could check up with your meat supplier if they've got a clue about the pH of the meat when they sell it.
As said before, meat from freshly slaughtered young animals should not find it's way into a salami.
The waterbinding capacity as well as pH value is far too high. Ask instead for meat from old mature animals.
Wishing you a Good Day!
Igor The Dane
Igor The Dane
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Igor Duńczyk
- Passionate
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 23:41
- Location: Croatia
Hi Mark,
What are the latest news on your Pepperoni and Chorizo?
When going back to your posting of 27 August I notice that you stated 0,25 g Ferment pr. kg. So you used only half a gram of Starter culture for the two kilo ?
I think that´s too risky.
As I have stated before, Starter culture is usually composed of freeze dried bacteria strains blended with a carrier (usually dextrose or starch) and when you use such a small quantity you will have no idea about the actual relation between carrier and bacteria, because during transport separation may take place in the sachet, leaving carrier in one side and bacteria in the other.
Also it is a fact that when compared to a.o. SACCO Lyocarni cultures Wiberg Bactoferm have a lower total cell count (if I remember right app. 40% weaker than SACCO) but they pack 25 gr as compared to SACCO´s average 20 gr which means that proportionally there will be a higher amount of carrier in the Wiberg sachet.
I am not sure about the total cell count of Chr.Hansens Starter cultures but you can check on their product information sheets.
Because of this fact regarding carrier/bacteria proportions it is always highly recommendable to overdose by at least 100% or even 200% when making such small batches.
Too much Starter won´t harm. Too little will!
Or another way to be on the safe side:
Always use at least 1/8th of a sachet to be sure that there will actually be enough bacteria in what you pour out of the sachet.
What are the latest news on your Pepperoni and Chorizo?
When going back to your posting of 27 August I notice that you stated 0,25 g Ferment pr. kg. So you used only half a gram of Starter culture for the two kilo ?
I think that´s too risky.
As I have stated before, Starter culture is usually composed of freeze dried bacteria strains blended with a carrier (usually dextrose or starch) and when you use such a small quantity you will have no idea about the actual relation between carrier and bacteria, because during transport separation may take place in the sachet, leaving carrier in one side and bacteria in the other.
Also it is a fact that when compared to a.o. SACCO Lyocarni cultures Wiberg Bactoferm have a lower total cell count (if I remember right app. 40% weaker than SACCO) but they pack 25 gr as compared to SACCO´s average 20 gr which means that proportionally there will be a higher amount of carrier in the Wiberg sachet.
I am not sure about the total cell count of Chr.Hansens Starter cultures but you can check on their product information sheets.
Because of this fact regarding carrier/bacteria proportions it is always highly recommendable to overdose by at least 100% or even 200% when making such small batches.
Too much Starter won´t harm. Too little will!
Or another way to be on the safe side:
Always use at least 1/8th of a sachet to be sure that there will actually be enough bacteria in what you pour out of the sachet.
Wishing you a Good Day!
Igor The Dane
Igor The Dane
Thanks for the coment about the amount of culture. I had to hunt hard online to find the recomended amount of culture to use. I am going to weigh the sausages tomorrow. The bottom line is how do I know if they are safe to eat when they reach the 30% weight loss (I know without expensive analysis that question is not possible to answer). If they are mouldy and smell rank well that is obvious. If there is any hint of something wrong I will bin them.
Redzed my digital spear ph tester arrived today. The person who translated the instructions needs a little help, but I can make them out well enough. When I weigh the sausages tomorrow I will test the Ph (I need to buy a battery for it). I do not know if at this stage if the Ph is of any importance?
Redzed my digital spear ph tester arrived today. The person who translated the instructions needs a little help, but I can make them out well enough. When I weigh the sausages tomorrow I will test the Ph (I need to buy a battery for it). I do not know if at this stage if the Ph is of any importance?
Do no harm. Margerine is the biggest food crime
Just make sure you calibrate the the tester and you will be ready to ago. You'll appreciate how easy it will be to get a correct reading. While it is too late for you to do anything about the pH now, I'd test it out of curiosity. It normally rises from the lowest point reached after fermentation. But at this stage you can also tell whether in fact the bacteria did it's job simply by squeezing the sausage. It it's quite firm it worked, if it's still soft and crumbly when cut, you might have a problem. I made a salame last year that failed and it was soft even after 6 months.
Let us know the results.
Let us know the results.
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Igor Duńczyk
- Passionate
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 23:41
- Location: Croatia
Hi Mark
Laboratorical analysis is the only sure way to find out which other bacteria have mingled with the applyed ones, but do measure the pH - I´m interested to know.
If possible, make a picture of a cut through sausage and post it - even if you may not be too proud about the look.
After all we would like to contribute with some kind of diagnosis to prevent future repetitions of similar mishaps
Try to make one with flash and one with daylight exposure - and remember macro mode !
If you read the scientific article www.ftb.com.hr/41/41-253.pdf by researchers at Dipartimento di Biologia, Difesa e Biotecnologie Agro-Forestali at the Universita degli Studi della Basilicata in the south Italian town of Potenza you will see that in their study of lipolytic enzyme activity of the traditional fermented dry salsiccia sausage, one of the four test batches was made without the addition of starter culture. The way most locals make their salsiccia.
The starter cultures added to the other three batches were combinations of the same Lactobacillus sakei strain and three different strains of Staphylococcus xylosus.
The fact is that the control batch without starter culture added (but like the other three containing 2.5 % salt, sodium nitrite (E 250) (160 mg/kg), potassium nitrate (E 252) (160 mg/kg), dextrose (0.4 %), milk powder (0.76 %), and ascorbic acid (E 300) (0.12 %) did not reveal any negative influence caused by ingenious bacteria contamination.
By by referring to this study I just want to point out that there are locations around the world where starter cultures are not a must.
But unless you are lucky enough to live in one of those places please remember ALWAYS to add starter culture in PROPER amounts.
As a thumb rule I´d say that the larger the batches you make, the less you need to overdose the amount of starter culture because of the hazards of possible separation of carrier and bacteria within the sachet which I have mentioned previously.
When making just small amounts of a few kilo sausage do use at least double the amount of starter - and preferably four times more. After all, we talk about using one gram pr. kg instead of only 0,25 gr (which is also impossible to measure unless you have a laboratory weight).
Thus: It will neither cost you a fortune nor your life to overdose
Remember: too much starter culture will never hurt your sausage - too little definitely will !
It will not lead to overt sourness - that´s entirely decided by the amount of dextrose (or sugar) added. As you see in the italian stydy they add only 4 grams pr. kg - together with the italian habit of adding milk powder containing some lactose which may however be harder for some bacteria strains to ferment.
Laboratorical analysis is the only sure way to find out which other bacteria have mingled with the applyed ones, but do measure the pH - I´m interested to know.
If possible, make a picture of a cut through sausage and post it - even if you may not be too proud about the look.
After all we would like to contribute with some kind of diagnosis to prevent future repetitions of similar mishaps
Try to make one with flash and one with daylight exposure - and remember macro mode !
If you read the scientific article www.ftb.com.hr/41/41-253.pdf by researchers at Dipartimento di Biologia, Difesa e Biotecnologie Agro-Forestali at the Universita degli Studi della Basilicata in the south Italian town of Potenza you will see that in their study of lipolytic enzyme activity of the traditional fermented dry salsiccia sausage, one of the four test batches was made without the addition of starter culture. The way most locals make their salsiccia.
The starter cultures added to the other three batches were combinations of the same Lactobacillus sakei strain and three different strains of Staphylococcus xylosus.
The fact is that the control batch without starter culture added (but like the other three containing 2.5 % salt, sodium nitrite (E 250) (160 mg/kg), potassium nitrate (E 252) (160 mg/kg), dextrose (0.4 %), milk powder (0.76 %), and ascorbic acid (E 300) (0.12 %) did not reveal any negative influence caused by ingenious bacteria contamination.
By by referring to this study I just want to point out that there are locations around the world where starter cultures are not a must.
But unless you are lucky enough to live in one of those places please remember ALWAYS to add starter culture in PROPER amounts.
As a thumb rule I´d say that the larger the batches you make, the less you need to overdose the amount of starter culture because of the hazards of possible separation of carrier and bacteria within the sachet which I have mentioned previously.
When making just small amounts of a few kilo sausage do use at least double the amount of starter - and preferably four times more. After all, we talk about using one gram pr. kg instead of only 0,25 gr (which is also impossible to measure unless you have a laboratory weight).
Thus: It will neither cost you a fortune nor your life to overdose
Remember: too much starter culture will never hurt your sausage - too little definitely will !
It will not lead to overt sourness - that´s entirely decided by the amount of dextrose (or sugar) added. As you see in the italian stydy they add only 4 grams pr. kg - together with the italian habit of adding milk powder containing some lactose which may however be harder for some bacteria strains to ferment.
Wishing you a Good Day!
Igor The Dane
Igor The Dane
