Salame di Cervo

Post by **Bob K** » Fri May 09, 2014 00:27

Toby-

Sodium Erythorbate is the salt of Ascorbic acid (vitamin C). you can get Pure vitamin C tablets at health food places.

tobertuzzi · Post by **tobertuzzi** » Fri May 09, 2014 00:38

Thanks Bob
Can would pure vitamin C do the same job as sodium erythorbate then? I have been dry curing sausage for a while now successfully without it, like Chris Im just after a brighter product.

Toby

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Fri May 09, 2014 04:16

Sodium erythorbate, also known as erythorbic acid or sodium isoascorbate, is virtually identical to vitamin C, but does not have the same nutritional value. Erythorbic acid is made from sugar and sodium to create this salt. It is used in meat products to retain meat`s color and does so by preventing meat oxidation. Therefore, it is classified as an antioxidant. Because sodium erythorbate is a source of sodium, it can increase blood pressure. Individuals with diabetes, heart conditions, hypertension, and kidney disease, should limit its consumption.

Sodium erythorbate caused a sensation when scientists discovered that it reduces the formation of cancer causing nitrosamines in meat. There`s no doubt about it, erythorbate also prevents color change and helps maintain flavor in meat.

However, in my opinion, it was too quick to be deemed safe. Here's why: There are side effects, especially if used in larger doses. Although erythorbate is simply a variation of ascorbic acid (vitamin C), some people have suffered headache and generalized fatigue and dizziness. There have even been instances where it has caused hemolysis in some people (red blood cells rupture). This condition leads to anemia. Sodium erythorbate, building acids in the bloodstream, can lead to the formation of kidney stones and blood in the urine. It can also cause abdominal cramping and diarrhea, as well as nausea, vomiting, heartburn, and gastritis. In larger doses, it can also be a significant source of dehydration - a serious and dangerous condition.

Yup, there`s no doubt about it, erythorbate also prevents color change and helps maintain flavor in meat. Still, I am convinced that this "salt" has no part in sausage-making. I don't care what color the meat is. I suffer with severe diabetes and will not touch isoascorbates.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

Post by **redzed** » Fri May 09, 2014 06:45

tobertuzzi wrote:Looks awesome Chris, I was looking for sodium erythorbate locally. Stuffers doesn't list it. Where did you get yours from? The sausage maker has it but with the Canadian dollar these days it starts to get pricey. I might have to try your recipe with moose.

Toby I got my erythorbate from the Sausagemaker. I also have a package of Stuffers "Fermento" Salami conditioner which is a mixture whre sodium erythorbate is a major component. However, when I just checked the Stuffers website they now claim that their "Fermento" is GDL. Give them a call and confirm. Stuffers Fermento is not to be confused with the Sausagemaker's Fermento. Unfortunately many do, as I have read on other sausage sites, and are asking only for trouble especially when they dump a cup or two (a la Rytek) into their sausage.

Chuckwagon wrote:There are side effects, especially if used in larger doses. Although erythorbate is simply a variation of ascorbic acid (vitamin C), some people have suffered headache and generalized fatigue and dizziness. There have even been instances where it has caused hemolysis in some people (red blood cells rupture). This condition leads to anemia. Sodium erythorbate, building acids in the bloodstream, can lead to the formation of kidney stones and blood in the urine. It can also cause abdominal cramping and diarrhea, as well as nausea, vomiting, heartburn, and gastritis. In larger doses, it can also be a significant source of dehydration - a serious and dangerous condition.

I am neither a proponent nor an opponent of sodium erythorbate. Used in small amounts (.5%), I don't believe it is any more harmful than nitrites or phosphates. We could also make a strong argument against using any soy or corn derivatives since on our continent they are almost exclusively made from genetically modified plants. And in fact, the list of side effects caused by sodium erythorbate cited by CW is identical to side effects caused by Vitamin C. http://www.news-medical.net/health/Vita ... fects.aspx So should I also hesitate before having a glass of orange juice in the morning?

Post by **Bob K** » Fri May 09, 2014 11:55

tobertuzzi wrote:Thanks Bob
Can would pure vitamin C do the same job as sodium erythorbate then? I have been dry curing sausage for a while now successfully without it, like Chris Im just after a brighter product.

Toby

I do know that ascorbic acid works well as a color preserver/enhancer in canned products.

I don't know if it would work to reduce nitrate in the curing process. Sodium erythorbate is used for that purpose in commercial products as it accelerates the curing time...thus saving money.

Post by **redzed** » Fri May 09, 2014 18:29

Toby, there is a good discussion on the topic of antioxidants in sausage here:

http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=6780

IdaKraut · Post by **IdaKraut** » Fri May 09, 2014 20:27

Chuckwagon, you stated: "There are side effects, especially if used in larger doses."

I believe this to be true but if used in the recommended amounts, which is generally 0.5% or less, I can't find any reference to adverse medical effects.

tobertuzzi · Post by **tobertuzzi** » Fri May 09, 2014 23:19

Great thanks for that Chris

Post by **Butterbean** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 23:20

I thought I'd give Redzed's recipe a try. I used TSPX and table sugar and dextrose. Carried the pH down to 5.09 and dried it very slowly. Only other change was I used saltpeter and blueberry wine.

I've cut into it a bit young yet but my curiosity had gotten the best off me. The aromas and the flavor is top notch. Simply put, it tastes natural and it seems you can even taste a meadow in it. Top notch in my book. Thanks for sharing Chris.

BriCan · Post by **BriCan** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 07:09

Butterbean wrote:
Image

Just a quick question ... have you got meat separation as there seems to be a hole in the top piece

Post by **Butterbean** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 15:42

Bob I saw that after I posted it and no its not separation only the result of poor slicing on my part. Its still a bit young and quite tender in the center.

Post by **redzed** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 02:54

Looks BB, but still a bit young. And those flavours in the recipe are actually a nice change from other types of Italian salumi. Quite aromatic, almost perfumy fragrance, probably intended to mask the gamey smell of venison.

Post by **Butterbean** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 03:37

What shrink did you find yours to taste best at?

Its got some really nice aromas. Nice cheesy and floral aroma. I tend to let it linger in front of my nose before biting it just to enjoy the fragrance.

Post by **redzed** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 21:53

I don't let my venison drop below 35% Unlike all pork dry cured sausages, those with venison tend to dry out faster and develop holes inside. Have to find out why.

Post by **Butterbean** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 23:17

I dropped the humidity a little to speed the drying so I'm not far from 35% and will probably get there the first of the week.

As per the hole - I think I read something about the characteristics of darker meats yesterday in a processing journal I'm reading and how you need to treat dark meats a little different. Sadly, much of what i was reading was bouncing off my brain and not sticking. I'll try and go back and see if I can find if what they were talking about would have anything to do with this.

Barring bucks in rut, the whitetail here have very little gamey flavor and is much like beef due to their diet. The flavor is very mild but this really does do the venison justice. Its very good. Very complex if that makes sense.