funk taste

LOUSANTELLO
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:03

I was just at a customers house and their kid brought over some Biltong, which I never heard of. It's a Souh African recipe for Beef Jerky. It was cut up little chunks of meat. I assume it was done in a dehydrator. After having a conversation with the customer, I got the impression that a main ingredient is vinegar. I spoke with a pretty knowledgeable guy at Butchers and Packers yesterday. We had a discussion regarding culture. The word he described as that funk smell and taste was the "dirty sock smell",,,which gives Italian cured meats the character it is known for. He did tell me for simple dried Italian sausage without the dirty sock smell, there are many people out there making it not using culture,,,,BUT MAKE SURE YOU CONTINUE TO USE CURE #2. He suggested due the the shrinkage, go to a 38-42mm casing. He did ask how much dextrose I was adding. He told me .6% was moderate and not on the high side. He says in normal conditions as far as cultures, they all give off a different flavor and most people choose to experiment until they find the one they are looking for. I like the 007 for soppressata,,,,but now they both had me thinking. If we know cultures are what bring your meats to a safer PH level, and that's it's purpose, what about a vinegar or wine to drop the PH?
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Post by Bob K » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:23

Sure Lou you can drop the Ph in a number of ways but would you like the taste of a vinegar flavored sausage?

Along with the purpose of a culture safely lowering the Ph - it does it in a way that is palatable.

More common ways for sausage would be GDL http://www.myspicesage.com/glucono-delt ... Amny8P8HAQ or citric acid but both are again harsh.
redzed wrote:But if you want to produce a simple dried sausage then do what I suggested and don't ferment. Cube the meat, add the salt and cure, keep in fridge for three days, grind, stuff into a 40mm or smaller casing and transfer to the curing chamber.
http://www.instructables.com/id/BiltongNOT-jerky/
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Post by redzed » Fri Jun 03, 2016 16:04

LOUSANTELLO wrote:Ok, so I have contradicting answers, so I am still trying to understand. It sounds like if you ferment, you should use a culture,,,,but Redzed also says if I don't ferment, to cube it, add cure and keep in refrigerator for 3 days, grind it, season it and stuff it, then transfer to curing chamber. Excuse my ignorance,,do I or don't I need the culture? That's the big question. What do I gain? What are the risks involved if any? Is it the cure or the culture that reduces risks?
What contradictions? You asked how to make a dry cured sausage without the complexities of flavour and aroma present, so others and myself offered some suggestions. I tried to explain how the different bacteria in a starter culture work and how you can modify the process to your liking. There are no absolute truths when it comes to making sausage as there is more than one way to skin the cat. And you can make your sausage with 007 as well. Just add a bit of extra sugar 5 or 6g per kg and ferment at over 25C. You will get a fast drop, utilizing only the fermentative bacteria in that starter, not giving the micrococci a chance to work. And you question what are the risks? Well there are always risks. You are working with raw meat so you are exposing yourself to all kinds of unwanted bacteria, and it's not exclusively the nitrites or the bacteria that will assure the safety of the product, but it's a whole combination of the quality of meat, hygiene, additives and process that will determine the outcome. Once again refer to the yellow book and re-read the section on the concept of the HURDLE TECHNOLOGY.

LOUSANTELLO wrote: He did tell me for simple dried Italian sausage without the dirty sock smell, there are many people out there making it not using culture,,,,BUT MAKE SURE YOU CONTINUE TO USE CURE #2. He suggested due the the shrinkage, go to a 38-42mm casing. He did ask how much dextrose I was adding. He told me .6% was moderate and not on the high side. He says in normal conditions as far as cultures, they all give off a different flavor and most people choose to experiment until they find the one they are looking for. I like the 007 for soppressata,,,,but now they both had me thinking. If we know cultures are what bring your meats to a safer PH level, and that's it's purpose, what about a vinegar or wine to drop the PH?
Sounds like an echo of what we have been trying to explain here. :lol: Vinegar is a bad idea. It may work in Mexican chorizo which is a fresh sausage (certainly not one of my favourites), but does not work in dry cured sausage. It will denature the proteins in the meat affecting the binding in a negative way, kill all the bacteria (both good and bad) and you will end up with dry and sour chunks of ground meat. You can drop the pH in a variety of ways. You can use GDL as Bob pointed out, citric acid, or you can ferment with yogourt, kefir, probiotic capsules, whey or indigenous bacteria. But using these methods you will never duplicate or even come close to the flavour of a southern European style sausage. And because I listed these options here, does not mean I am promoting them. There is a lot more involved in the process than simply lowering the pH. In fact different spoilage bacteria are capable of lowering the pH. So it is a whole series of events that are involved in creating the sausage.

As to biltong, read these threads where a couple of our Australian members with South African roots show their work and provide recipes. These guys are biltong aficionados.
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=6145
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... ht=biltong

Another discussion about biltong and jerky is here:
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... ht=biltong
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:50

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Well, I think I'm full for a while. I made 30 pounds of dried Italian sausage. Butchers and Packers suggested using the 38-42mm casings. They look pretty plumpy to grab them as a stick for now, but maybe as they dry, they will shrink in size. Behind the sausage are 3 10b. soppressa, 2 coppa and 2 bresaola. Now it's just a waiting game
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Post by Bob K » Fri Jun 10, 2016 13:12

Hey Lou-
60+ lbs of meat is an awful lot to stuff into a small chamber like a freezer. At 25-30 lbs I start to run out of room for good air circulation and even drying.
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Fri Jun 10, 2016 13:45

The bresaola's and coppa's are coming out next week. They are at 39% right now. I have 2 fans in the door with a push pull design that triggers on for 5 minutes every hour and 2 indirect 8" computer fans, one top left and one bottom right at slow speed, push pull design that goes on only when the unit calls for humidity. I also have a dehumidifier in the unit. Even with the 30 new pounds of fresh, I am maintaining 76% humidity,,,,but I knew it was going to be mentioned.
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Post by Bob K » Fri Jun 10, 2016 14:28

I have no problem maintaining an 82% humidity level, but air won't circulate if they are touching the walls or each other.
Did you end up using a culture or not?...and did you ferment it?
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Fri Jun 10, 2016 21:28

The only meat touching each other right now is the sausage links until I figure out how to hang them. I have plenty of height that I'm not even using. Nothing is touching the outer walls and there's plenty of room between them. I did end up using 007 culture again and put in 6g dextrose per kilo. Ph was 5.1 at 18 hours.
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Post by LOUSANTELLO » Fri Jun 10, 2016 22:32

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I rehung them differently. This is the room I have and I took advantage of the height of the unit.
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Post by harleykids » Mon Jun 13, 2016 14:33

Looks good Lou, I too like to take advantage of the height when hanging links. Just be sure not to hang too many on one link chain...I had a link chain of chorizo break on me one night after I moved them from the fermenting chamber (my kitchen oven!) to the drying chamber!

Too much weight!my camera caught the movement and sent me a text message, so I was able to go save those poor links that night. They would have laid on the floor until the next day. Nice to have a camera in the chamber!
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