Will fibrous casings keep mold off?

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harleykids
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Will fibrous casings keep mold off?

Post by harleykids » Mon Feb 20, 2017 18:15

Hey all, Chris, Bob, Butterbean, Lou, etc!

Been away from the forum for a while....work, go figure!

Question, I am going to be starting my curing chamber up again soon, and had a question on fiberous casings (like the ones they sell at Bass Pro, Cabelas, etc for venison summer sausage)

Will these fiberous casings keep mold off the salumi while in the chamber?
It seems that the outside of this type of casing would be a bit more mold resistant?

I know there is a chemical that you can soak natural casings in to help inhibit mold growth, but I was wondering if anyone has simply tried moving to the fibrous/man made casings to inhibit mold growth?

I know....mold adds flavor and protects the salumi from bad molds forming. I get it.
But I like the flavor profile of the more "commercial" products, without any of the M600 flavor.

And I know I can brush off and wipe off any mold that forms with a soft brush or a paper towel and salt/water solution. But I am looking for a easier way to inhibit mold.

And I know the fiberous casings aren't "old world" visually, etc.

Wondering if the fiberous casings may be the easiest way to achieve my desired result?

Thanks all!

Jason
Last edited by harleykids on Mon Feb 20, 2017 22:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Bob K
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Post by Bob K » Mon Feb 20, 2017 20:39

harleykids wrote:Will these fiberous casings keep mold off the salumi while in the chamber?
No they won't Jason but they will be easier to wipe off. :lol:

Why not try one of the fast fermenting cultures, and add more sugar for the American style Tang. That should overcome the funky taste!
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Mon Feb 20, 2017 22:14

I'll echo what Bob said, and add a bit more. I just finished reading Gerhard Feiner's book Salami - Practical Science and Technology, and learned that there are now fibrous casings available to producers that are treated with anti mould agents that inhibit a large degree of mould growth. Furthermore, there are casings with spices and herbs on the inside of the casing, and once drying of the salami is completed, the casing is removed, resulting in a spice-coated end product.

So to answer your question, the only methods left to you are to dry in a chamber treated with anti-fungal agents, cold smoking or treating the casings. Reducing the air flow and lowering the RH and temperature in a chamber will slow down mould growth, but will not prevent it.

From Feiner's book, pp. 70-71
The two most common materials applied to avoid growth of unwanted mold
are natamycin and potassium sorbate. Natamycin (pimaricin) is produced by
Streptomyces natalensis, while potassium sorbate is the salt of sorbic acid.
Sorbic acid is 2,4-hexadien acid and acts against mold only in its undissociated
form. In meat and meat products, pH values around 5-6 are generally found
and around 40% of these acids are present in an undissociated state at such pH
levels acting as a preservative. Sorbate is regularly utilized in a dipping solution
during salami manufacture. The freshly filled salami is dipped for a few seconds
into a 5-10% solution of potassium sorbate, and this dipping process prevents to
a large degree growth of unwanted mold during fermentation. Another option is
to soak the casings to be filled in a 5-8% solution of potassium sorbate before
filling. Natamycin shows poor solubility in water but only 8-10 ppm is needed
to avoid growth of unwanted mold.
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Post by harleykids » Tue Feb 21, 2017 04:37

Thanks guys!

So if I go the fiberous casing route, should I soak the dry fiberous casings in anti mold agents?
Or just spray the outside of the casings with anti mold solution, once stuffed? (Kind of like we do with the M600 mold solution, after fermentation and stuffing)

And do I wait until after fermentation and PH drop, then spray the outside of the fiberous casings? Or both soak AND spray?

And can I spray the casings regualatly, say twice a week, to keep the mold from colonizing on the outside?

Thx!
Jason
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Post by harleykids » Tue Feb 21, 2017 05:14

Did some reading myself, and it looks like natamycin is the winner when it comes to inhibiting molds and yeasts.

Commercially used in salumi, cheese, baked goods, etc.

Trade names like Delvocid, etc
But hard for a hobbyist to get in the USA, due to it being an anti fungal/antimicrobial.

Anyone know where to get natamyin, Delvocid, etc?

Anyone experiment with natamycin on their casings?

Thx!
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Post by redzed » Tue Feb 21, 2017 07:32

Natamycin is not available to the general public and usually sold in large quantities to large food processors. I ran across a couple of places that do sell smaller packets but the stuff is very expensive. You can get potasium sorbate at any brewing supply shop and it's cheap. You can dip or spray the sausages in it, but soaking the casings is that recommended. It can also kill bacteria during the fermentation stage, so it should be applied after two or three days. After fermentation wash the salami in warm salty water, allow to trip dry for an hour and then apply the sorbate. Probably good for two weeks and then you will nedd to trat again. Should be less of a problem if you don't have other products with mould hanging in the chamber. And while the mould contributes to flavour development through proteolytic enzymatic activity, it also raises the pH at the end of the process by oxydizing lactic acids and giving the salami a milder taste.

And a note on fibrous casings. Not all are suited for dry cured sausages, so when buying make sure that you are buying the right ones. Usually the protein lined casings work well, in that they shrink nicely, clinging to the sausage as it dries. And what I like best about them, is that they are strong! You can fill them tightly and don't need to net or tie them.
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Post by harleykids » Tue Feb 21, 2017 23:36

Thanks Chris, Bob! Appreciate the advice!

I will see how it goes with the fiberous casings....hopefully I can keep the mold at bay! :-)

What fast fermenting culture do you guys suggest, that you have had good results with?

And whats the % sugar by meat weight that I would use as a starting point, for fast fermenting?

Thanks!
Jason
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Post by Bob K » Wed Feb 22, 2017 14:50

Jason-
I would get some F-LC as it can be used as a fast fermenting or also a slow fermenting dependent on the sugar and Temp. For fast ferment at around 85F for around 24 hrs.

Sugar will depend on how much tang you want, usually between 1 and 2%. I can tell you 2% (1% dextrose and 1% sugar is quite tart :shock: ) you will have to experiment to taste.

A lot of Poli's recipes are fast fermenting so you can use the sugar amounts and temps as a guideline. He likes LHP which is purely a lactic acid producing culture.

http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Sal ... chiona.pdf

As far as a target Ph, 5.3 is still the safety goal but 4.6 to 5.0 is more typical of an American product, and probably the tang we are used to in a store bought product.
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Post by harleykids » Thu Feb 23, 2017 00:49

Thanks Bob!

So when I ferment, as long as my PH drops below 5.3, then I should be safe, correct?

And the farther the PH drops, the "tangy/sour" taste will increase?

And so the total sugar regulates the final PH?
More sugar (up to 2% max), the lower the final PH will be?
And sugars can come from other sources like wine, etc correct?

So do I wait until the PH plateaus, where it doesn't fall any longer and levels off, and that should be the signal to me that fermentation is complete?

Can I use just dextrose? Or do I need a combination of dextrose and raw sugar?

I have a Hanna PH meter that's Bluetooth, so I will use that to chart my PH drop.

The casings that Bass Pro carries says they are non edible (of course) and good for everything from salami to summer sausage. It says soak the for 20-30 mins before using. Should be fine I think, but they don't say "protein lined". Reviews say that they shrink nicely and are easy to peel when dried. I am assuming they can also be used with cold smoke too...

And per Chris' instructions, I should NOT soak the casings in patassium sorbate solution, as it could kill my fermenting culture, correct? Just do the warm salt water bath and then dip in potassium sorbate solution after fermentation is done, before I hang in my chamber to start the drying process. Sound about right?
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Post by redzed » Thu Feb 23, 2017 03:52

Before I could answer your questions I would like to know which starter you will be using, what type of salami you will be making and size of casing.
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Post by harleykids » Thu Feb 23, 2017 04:09

Chris,

F-LC is what I plan on using, sopressata, finocchiona, genoa, and pepperoni. Maybe a Spanich chorizo as well.

Casing size will be 2.5" fiberous mahogany casings, soaked for 20-30 mins in water before stuffing.

Fast fermentation at higher temp (85-90 F) for arpund 24 hours until PH drops and plateaus (4.8-5.0 or so)

Then a quick rinse in red wine, hang dry for 2 hours, and then a quick dip in the potassium sorbate solution. Then hang in chamber to dry at 75-80% RH at 55 deg F temp until WL of around 40%

Sound OK?

Thanks
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Post by redzed » Thu Feb 23, 2017 08:31

With the exception of the pepperoni, which is more American in style and most have bit of tang, the others traditionally are mild tasting without any sourness. To make such a product a slower fermentation is best, with the fermentation stopped at 5.2.

You can do a fast ferment with F-LC, but all that you will achieve in that process will be lactic acid production (fermentation) and a fast pH drop. F-LC consist of three bacteria: Pediococcus acidilactici, Lactobacillus curvatus, & Staphylococcus xylosus. The first two are lactic bacteria which will ferment the sausage, and S. xylous will set the colour, impart flavour and aroma. This is achieved by enzymatic activity produced by micrococci such as S. xylosus. Further to this, micrococci produce the enzyme nitrate reductase, which converts the nitrates to nitrite, which contributes to colour formation and protection against unwanted bacteria. Until nitrate is converted to nitrite, it's quite useless. But the issue here is that the nitrate reductase enzyme will not be active at a pH lower than 5.5. That is also the number for some of the other enzymes produced by the starter culture and naturally occurring in the meat. And when the pH reaches 5, the micrococci are totally disabled. To allow them an opportunity to do their work you need slower fermentation, with cooler temps and less sugar. You can also slow down the fermentation by using half dextrose which will be consumed immediately and half sucrose which which takes a bit longer for the bacteria to digest it. if you don't want a pH drop below 5, use 2g dextrose and 2g sucrose. As soon as you achieve the desired pH move to a temp of 12C and fermentation will usually stop.

In the end, you can of course make what you like, we all have different tastes, but the above should help in guiding you as to how you can control the process and achieve what you like.
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