My first batch and everything looks good!! I Think!

cajuneric
Frequent User
Frequent User
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 20:12
Location: Panama

My first batch and everything looks good!! I Think!

Post by cajuneric » Thu Mar 01, 2018 23:02

Hello Everyone,

This is my first attempt at this wonderful craft and I wanted to share some pictures with you. I'm hoping I can get some additional advice as I know that there is much I still need to learn. After waiting for a few final pieces of equipment to come in I was finally able to get going. Some might say I went all in on my first batch but I tend to have a all or nothing type of attitude. We started with 20 kilos of salami (Spicy Italian Cacciatore and Finocchiona) I fermented them for 36 hours at 71F 85% with BLC 007 (using .5% dextrose. At the 36 hour mark I tried to test using ph strips and that was ridiculous so I cooked some up and tasted it. Seemed tangy enough and from what I read 36 hours is plenty for BLC007. (as a side note I ordered a ph meter from Hanna so that I could get better readings in the future!!)

Dropped the chamber temp to 55 and added some whole muscles that I have been curing for the past 2 weeks. I added 4 Lonzino, 9 Coppa, 1 pancetta, 1 Bresaola, 4 duck breast, and a really crazy pancetta wrapped bresaola I made using transglutaminase.

One thing I immediately noticed was my humidity spiked!! It went to almost 98% in a few hours. Thankfully we are using the Eva Dry 1100 and it is keeping the chamber at a good 83% at all times. I haven't had to use the humidifier at all yet.. The temp is being controlled by a Johnson Control and the humidity is being controlled by the InkBird unit. I have one from Auber on order (as I like the fact that it can be controlled wirelessly. Hoping to get that this week) Here are a few pictures and I would love to hear any advice possible. Where I live this art does not exist. No one is doing it so I am all alone in my venture!!

The salami's grew Bac600 in 48 hours and were fully covered in 4 days where as the whole muscles are taking a bit longer./ The last picture is very of today (5 days in chamber) and as you can see the mold is just starting to creep in!!

this is possibly the coolest thing I have every done. I'm hooked!

Each Coppa and Lonzino is a slightly different flavor. Some spicy, some fennel, some juniper and cracked pepper. I wanted to experiment with salt content ranging from 2.75 to 3% and a variety of flavors and wine additions. I am a chef in Panama and wanted to add some cool new products to mu restaurant!!

I ran out of space but my next batch of Salami's will be Andouille. Then cracked Pepper Black Garlic Wine Salami. I cant wait to get some pics of that one.

Let me know what you think
Cajun Eric


Image Image

Image Image

Image Image

Image Image
User avatar
DanMcG
User
User
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 23:32
Location: Central NY

Post by DanMcG » Fri Mar 02, 2018 01:43

First timer and doing 20 Kg....I wish you the best.
User avatar
Butterbean
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1766
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 04:10
Location: South Georgia

Post by Butterbean » Fri Mar 02, 2018 04:23

Looks great!
User avatar
Bob K
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2055
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 15:16
Location: Northwest Ct

Post by Bob K » Fri Mar 02, 2018 13:50

Look Great Eric, It looks like you have done your homework!
Kijek
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 16:05
Location: Stamford, Connecticut

Post by Kijek » Fri Mar 02, 2018 14:08

Wow nice job Cajun for your first time, I'm wondering now why you would ask me any question, like in that other thread.
Keep up the nice work.
cajuneric
Frequent User
Frequent User
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 20:12
Location: Panama

Post by cajuneric » Fri Mar 02, 2018 14:25

Hi Kijek,

Thanks. I was asking about your process because I read a study a few days ago (and as luck would have it I am haveing an impossible time finding it again) about fermenting times and temps and how it relates to drying times and temps. The outcome of this study pointed to the actual shape that salami dried in. Some dried oblong dried depending on the fluxuating conditions (as well as fat content I think) while others dried perfectly tubular and even. I guess I was wondering what your conditions were to see if their study was accurate in the real world..

I'll keep looking because it was very interesting! I need to save things like that I suppose for future reference..

Eric
Kijek
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 16:05
Location: Stamford, Connecticut

Post by Kijek » Fri Mar 02, 2018 14:30

Well like others have said, seems like your doing your homework and when you find that study, can you post a link to it, I myself and I'm sure others would like to read it.
Sorry I couldn't help you more.
User avatar
redzed
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3269
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 06:29
Location: Vancouver Island

Post by redzed » Fri Mar 02, 2018 15:59

Hi Eric,
Congrats on your undertaking and I'm glad to read that you are hooked on fermenting and dry curing. Join the club! A couple of observations here. First of all regarding B-LC-007. This culture is meant to be fermented at lower temps like 66-70 and 2 to 3 grams of sugar is more than enough to lower the pH to 5. What you achieved with fermenting at a high temp and that amount of sugar is acidification only while the Staphylococcus bacteria had no chance of doing their job. I think that when it comes to flavour and aroma development they are more important than the lactic bacteria. Read some of our recent comments about 007 here:
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=8446

High humidity in the chamber after loading it with fresh product is normal and won't hurt the for the first few days. 85% RH during the first week in the chamber is also ideal as it is about 10 points less than the water activity level. After that keep it at around 78-80 with some air exchange and low velocity air movement.

Your mold id growing fast and that is good. Most of the benefits from it occur during the earlier stages of curing in the chamber. Just watch that it doesn't go out of hand which can result in over active proteolysis and a bitter taste to the salami. If you get an ammonia smell in the chamber turn down the temp immediately.
cajuneric
Frequent User
Frequent User
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 20:12
Location: Panama

Post by cajuneric » Fri Mar 02, 2018 17:13

So what % of dextrose would you recommend to add with 007 as the culture?

Also would you say that my end result will be Tangier than it should because of how I started the fermentation. Will the mold help level that off a bit.

Finally my chamber is a stand-up fridge that you would see in a gas station. When the compressor kicks on a fan turns on and pulls air up.. it drops the humidity rather fast but after 2 minutes it cuts off and the humidity is back to 83%. Is that air flow going to give me an issue long term?
User avatar
redzed
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3269
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 06:29
Location: Vancouver Island

Post by redzed » Fri Mar 02, 2018 17:58

cajuneric wrote:So what % of dextrose would you recommend to add with 007 as the culture?
Please read read my comments in the link I referred you to.
Also would you say that my end result will be Tangier than it should because of how I started the fermentation. Will the will mold help level that off a bit.
I'll bet that the pH dropped to 4.7 -4.8, so you will definately have a tang. The mold help bring the pH back up slightly, but without the Staphylococcus bacteria and enzymatic activity you will still have a noticeable tang.

Finally my chamber is a stand-up fridge that you would see in a gas station. When the compressor kicks on a fan turns on and pulls air up.. it drops the humidity rather fast but after 2 minutes it cuts off and the humidity is back to 83%. Is that air flow going to give me an issue long term?
You have good recovery time, and the problem that you might have is too much air movement and direct air blowing on your meats when the compressor kicks in. You might want to look at some sort of baffling to diffuse the air.
Last edited by redzed on Mon Mar 05, 2018 17:03, edited 1 time in total.
cajuneric
Frequent User
Frequent User
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 20:12
Location: Panama

Post by cajuneric » Fri Mar 02, 2018 18:59

WOW!! I got kinda crazy with the dextrose... In the post that you linked the fellow used .3% and had tang that he felt was unmanageable. One comment suggested to use .2%. I have this question. If I use .15% dextrose and a touch of white wine (1/4 cup/5 pounds) and ferment in low temp like 68F will the fermentation stop when I change the temps to 53f?

For instance if I closely monitor the Ph and look to achieve 5.1 will the fermentation stop if lower the temp in the chamber to start drying or will it continue to ferment as long as there is a sugar available to eat..
Kijek
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 16:05
Location: Stamford, Connecticut

Post by Kijek » Fri Mar 02, 2018 19:02

Cajun, I like a mild tasting sausage with little to no tang. I used starter culture T-SPX and with my wing ding first try, I got what I was looking for as far as taste goes.

Trust me my next attempt will not be wing ding, I was one lucky guy for sure.
cajuneric
Frequent User
Frequent User
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 20:12
Location: Panama

Post by cajuneric » Sun Mar 04, 2018 22:34

OK here is a pic of my very first Salami. I have a ton of questions. After realizing that this craft was so much more involved than I ever imagined I had to make a radical change to my curing chamber yesterday. The fridge I am using has a built in fan that sucks air up and blows it through the compressor then finally recirculating it down the back. When this happens (every time the Johnson control activates it) the humidity falls to like 69% and it stays there for a minute or so. After the unit shuts off the humidity rises and levels off at around 80-83%. This happens 4 or 5 times an hour. Originally I thought that the air flow would be acceptable but as I am getting to know my drying chamber I think that it may be too much and the outer rows that are drying may be drying too fast.

My first action was to remove everything from the chamber and rotate all the product. So I did that but I felt as if the problem was the air flow.. WAY TOO MUCH. So I then unscrewed the fan from the fridge and unplugged the wire that activated it. I felt good about that until someone told me that my condenser coils will freeze and make a solid block of ice. That's not good.

What I decided to do then was to add a medium velocity computer fan where the old fan used to be. So that there is some air movement blowing on the coils. The old fan came on when the unit was powered up, now the small computer fan runs 24/7 but is not nearly as powerful.

When I looked at some of my smaller salamis (12inches long x 34mm) I noticed I was already at 30% loss on day 11. This seemed fast but what do I know. My other salamis (61mm) are at 24% loss where as my whole muscles are at a 6-8% loss. I don't know if any of this is on track but I think that the air flow of the fan was causing too much humidity to get sucked out of the air at one time. The basin at the bottom of the fridge would get filled up every 5 days or so and I would have to syphon it out.

Now with this new change I have made the humidity doesn't drop as much as before. I think it drops to 75% and there's not nearly as much air movement although there is a very slight gentle whisper of a breeze. Here are a few questions.

Now that my fan is disconnected from the unit what is the real benefit of using a Johnson control? My fridge will go from 2c-25c. Should I unplug the Johnson control and just use the fridge normal set to 11c? (I can use the temp control on a different chamber I am building)

In this picture of my salami is the slightly darker ring case hardening or am I just tripping? It didn't feel or taste hard. Also I was surprised that it wasn't more tangy based off of how much dextrose I used in the beginning. I am waiting on my ph meter so I am anxious to test the meat to see what it is at.

When I tasted it, it seemed a bit soft. I liked the flavor but I also thought that it was underdeveloped and could use more salt. I used 2.75% and .25% cure2. I'm sure another 10-15% drying will really concentrate the flavors as well as the salt.

All thought and comments are very much appreciated.
Eric



Image
Kijek
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 16:05
Location: Stamford, Connecticut

Post by Kijek » Mon Mar 05, 2018 00:14

Here I am the newbee again, LOL. No your not tripping, those were my first thoughts when I looked at that picture. But I think it's not really that bad and very acceptable at that degree.

Now is really where I hate to put my two cents in, but I think the controller would keep temps in the chamber much more accurately.

Outside of that you have some good concerns and it seem like you are on top of things, I hope you get some good answers, as I'm watching.

And what PH meter did you buy, do you have a link?
cajuneric
Frequent User
Frequent User
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 20:12
Location: Panama

Post by cajuneric » Mon Mar 05, 2018 01:52

I'm hoping that over the next few weeks it will even out but that just may be just me being naieve. I kinda went all out with the pH meter. I looked at the Milwaukee brand pH tester as well as a few others but ended up settling on the Hanna instruments model.

https://hannainst.com/hi99163-haccp-ph- ... -meat.html

It was a bit more than I wanted to pay but well built and Rock solid reviews. Besides there is a Hanna instruments here in Panama that can look at it if something goes wrong. If i lived in the us I probably would have went with the Milwaukee pH meter.


Thanks for the feedback on the controls. Currently my temp and humidity controls are smack dab in the middle of the entire chamber. Would you say that this is an acceptable placement?
Post Reply