lactic acid starter cultures that are equivalent to Fermento

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Post by IdaKraut » Sun Sep 23, 2012 01:41

Rick, one final note: the amount of dextrose you use will determine the degree of fermentation. At 1% you will get a nicely sour taste. Use less dextrose and it will not be as tangy. Once the internal meat temperature is above 120 or so F (depends on the culture used), the culture bacteria will die and fermentation will stop.

If you want your sausage to have some sweetness to it, then you would also want to add another type of sugar that the culture bacteria cannot or don't have enough time to ferment, such as brown sugar, maple syrup, etc.

Also, I think the Sausage Maker still has free shipping, so buying your LAB starter there may be wise.
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Post by ssorllih » Sun Sep 23, 2012 03:11

probably a good idea to check the ph. If you don't get it low enough you can still be at risk.
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Post by Rick » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:44

Rudy, thank you very much for the help. As for the savings, Butcher Packer is only 3 hours east of me, so shipping is not a problem and the cost appears to be $15 for the culture.

So two days at 100 F before raising the temperature to achieve the finished internal temp of 158F(per the Rytek book) should give it plenty of time to develop the tank before killing the bacteria. Your idea on adding a little sugar makes sense and sounds good.

What percentage of sugar would you suggest starting out with to obtain the sweetness with the tang?

As for the pH issue, we have incorporated cure #1 into our ingredients, and we are also raising the temp throughout the process to end up with a finished cooked product. Then wouldn't the issue of pH become a moot point?

Should this all work out to my liking, and I think it will, I would almost consider experimenting with adding some of this culture to my sour dough starters! As an avid sour dough bread maker, I'm always contemplating ways of boosting the sour in my bread.

Thanks again guys for all your help!
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Post by ssorllih » Sun Sep 23, 2012 13:47

Most of the pathogenic bacteria are unable to survive when the ph is below 4.5.
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Post by IdaKraut » Sun Sep 23, 2012 15:24

Rick, I would probably add some brown sugar, how much would be up to you. Here's a chart that shows relative sweetness: http://owlsoft.com/pdf_docs/WhitePaper/Rel_Sweet.pdf If you want to keep the sweetness the same as the original recipe, based on the amount of dextrose, then add 26% less table or brown sugar. This assumes that the dextrose you added will be used up by the culture and not add any sweetness.

Ross made a good point. You should invest in some pH test strips to ensure you have achieved the proper pH drop. Butcher & Packer should have some.
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Post by Baconologist » Sun Sep 23, 2012 16:30

Rick wrote:As for the pH issue, we have incorporated cure #1 into our ingredients, and we are also raising the temp throughout the process to end up with a finished cooked product. Then wouldn't the issue of pH become a moot point?
Yes, that is correct, pH level isn't an essential safety hurdle in a cooked sausage such as the Summer Sausage linked above.
Godspeed!

Bob
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Post by Rick » Sun Sep 23, 2012 17:26

Rudy, you lost me on your "then add 26% less table or brown sugar" comment. You mentioned earlier that the original recipe contained 0.468 % dextrose. We decided if I boosted that amount and added 1% dextrose along with the culture, that would give me a nice tang. So assuming the bacteria eats up all the dextrose, I'm now at zero sweetener. So to get back to the original sweetness, I'd have to add 0.468% additional sugar, in addition to the dextrose. Correct?
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Post by Baconologist » Sun Sep 23, 2012 17:57

Dextrose is 26% less sweet than sucrose, so when using sucrose the amount required for the same level of sweetness is 26% less.
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Post by IdaKraut » Sun Sep 23, 2012 20:23

Rick,

Bob is correct. Use only 1% dextrose (to feed the culture bacteria) and then replace the original 0.5% (rounded up) dextrose the recipe calls for with sucrose (table) or brown sugar (roughly same sweetness as table sugar). So, if you follow the Kutas recipe, you would add 26% less table or brown sugar. For the 10 lb recipe, that would equate to about 17.8 grams of table or brown sugar. Make sense?
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Post by Rick » Sun Sep 23, 2012 21:40

Rudy, that makes complete sense. Again, many thanks for all the help. I'll let you know how the bologna turns out!
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Post by ssorllih » Sun Sep 23, 2012 23:02

Light brown sugar is 10% molassas and dark brown is 15%.
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Post by IdaKraut » Wed Sep 26, 2012 17:32

Rick, I just made a batch of fermented pork roll (similar to Taylor Pork Roll) and used F-LC culture. I used 1% dextrose and fermented at 90° F and 90% humidity. After 18 hours, I checked the pH and found it had dropped to 4.8 already. I tested a piece and found it had the flavor I wanted and then proceeded with the smoking and gradual heating to result in the final product. I essentially followed the procedure for summer sausage that I pointed you to: http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-re ... er-sausage

The point I am trying to make is that you should check your pH after 12 to 16 hours and see if you are where you want it. This assumes you are using a fast acting culture. You may find you don't want to go much beyond 16 to 24 hours before proceeding with the final heating and smoking.
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Post by Rick » Thu Sep 27, 2012 03:33

Rudy, I'll certainly keep your suggestion in mind, and many thanks for keeping me in mind when doing this experiment.
Rick
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