Starter culture. Biobak Ultra Plus For Raw Salami

Igor Duńczyk
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Wed Aug 14, 2013 14:09

Hello Ursula,

Reading the last posts on the topic I can only say that I grieve the fact that you´re so darned far away from Europe (and especially far away from the polish distributer of SACCO cultures with whom I work).

One thing being the pricing. With all respects to the fact that we all have to earn a living and that it may be a struggle for distributers serving the non-commercial segment to make things balance, I can only say that all the prices on cultures, both CH and SACCO that I´ve seen posted in this forum, whether from your local aussie or from US´ are.... (hmm... how to formulate this in a diplomatic way :roll: ) ... well they look like "special prices for non-commercial users" :oops:

The other thing being the limited range of cultures avaliable. Presuming that Green Living probably face a situation similar to other consumer-level distributors, that starter cultures just ain´t something you sell in dozens on a daily basis, they probably can´t allow themselves to have a wide range avaliable considering the limited 12 months shelf life
- so start making some more salami and teewurst you folks out there! :lol:

On the F-RM-7 you are right: there is a certain resemblence between this and VBM-02.
RM stands for Rudolf Müller which was a renowned German starter culture producer bought by Chr.Hansen many years ago. Way back then the RM 7 contained the Lactobacillus Curvatus strain Lb3 DSM-Nr.8768. This seems now replaced by by a Lactobacillus Sakei if Marianski state so while the two Staphyloccuccus remain in place.

The Joker in the game is that the same bacteria name doesn´t necessarily mean identical proprieties. All producers strive to search for, find and isolate strains with particular features, often within the Sakei, Pediococcus, Plantarum and Curvatus families.
You see the particular designation of the "old" Curvatus in the RM 7 above.

There will be some Sakei, Pediococcus and Curvatus which produce natural bacteriocins against Listeria (which is roughly said a way of "bacteria self protection") and some who don´t. SACCO makes an effort to include Listeria prohibiting strains in as many starter cultures as they find reasonable, while also offering the traditional non-Listeria inhibitive cultures to those who don´want this feature. To the best of my experiences the Listeria inhibition does not affect the taste proprieties at all.

Choice is yours. Listeria protection is not a must (The Pediococcus strain used in T-SPX doesn´t produce bacteriocins, just like the SACCO analogue culture THM-17 doesn´t) but I think the added protection is a pro and you´ve probably read CW´s posting about the Listeria affair in US recently...
Wishing you a Good Day!
Igor The Dane
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Do cultures have to be kept frozen?

Post by markjass » Thu Aug 15, 2013 01:27

Do cultures have to be kept frozen? I suspect so, if not why not buy some from overseas.
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Post by crustyo44 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 04:59

Hi Mark,
Importing cultures from overseas sounds easy enough, but now your trouble starts.
Quarantine will open the sealed packages to check if the white powder is correctly labelled etc and tested several times.
Customs will want to have a look as well etc. Every Tom, Dick and Harry ( The Red Tape Vultures) from other Departments need to stamp it all and by the time it lands on your doorstep, you can take it all to the tip.
Same here, no difference, too many bludgers need to justify their existence and blown-out salaries.
If these cultures weren't so time and temperature dependent, it would be a proposition to import them.
Cheers Mate,
Jan.
Brisbane.
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Post by ssorllih » Thu Aug 15, 2013 05:16

Is there a niche market here for applied microbiology? Some university could endow its entire science program.
Ross- tightwad home cook
Igor Duńczyk
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Thu Aug 15, 2013 08:46

markjass wrote:Do cultures have to be kept frozen?
That´s the point Mark : Cultures HAVE to be kept at min. -18C (0,4 Fh) the sachet has to be refrozen immediately after you have used the desired amount.

A few days of transport at plus degrees below 20C (68 Fh) are just tolerable, but the more the cultures are exposed to plus degrees the less sure one can be if their activity level will remain the same throughout the guaranteed shelf life period.
Wishing you a Good Day!
Igor The Dane
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Post by tazplas » Fri Aug 16, 2013 06:20

Well i visited the guys at Princi Small Goods - http://www.princismallgoods.com.au/products/salami/ today as they are just round the corner from work.
Talked to the production manager on the phone (he was out at the other factory) and he said all they used was the F1 starter. They don't use a mould starter like the Bactoferm 600 at all.
I then talked to an Italian guy who showed me some salumi hanging around out in the breeze and he said that if the mould comes, then it comes. If it doesn't, he no worries. If he gets green mould, just brush it off.
So there you have it. Straight from the horses mouth although i suspect there are differing views on all of that across the world and i'm just repeating as was told to me. :smile:

Cheers

Steve
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:23

tazplas wrote:...he said all they used was the F1 starter
Steve - the next time you visit Princi Small Goods you may ask the production manager if they´ve ever considered using the T-SPX instead?

The bacteria strains in the two starters are identical but like all "fast" cultures the F-1 is boosted by simple means to give a quick pH drop which actually hampers the Staphylococchi in doing their job properly. Unless fermenting takes place at a low temperature.

I´d suppose that a real deliproducer like Princi could allow themselves the slightly longer fermentation and maturing time that´s needed when using the T-SPX but with the benefits of getting a better color and aroma formation in the products. Perhaps they just haven´t heard about that CH starter :roll: ?
Wishing you a Good Day!
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Post by tazplas » Fri Aug 16, 2013 23:42

Hi Igor
You can get the T-SPX here in OZ but i only had a very quick conversation with him so i can only assume that they are aware of it and do use it for some items.
At the end of the day, they know what they are doing i suppose :smile:
Anyway, it's more information for me/us at least.

Cheers

Steve
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Sat Aug 17, 2013 00:59

Aware or not. It could also be because the distributor or whoever advised Princi to use the F-1 have their funny ways. Not to say that it´s the same all over the world but in Poland I have more than once experienced faulty recommandations on which culture to use for which purpose.

F-1 is good for producers who either can´t or won´t afford a longer fermentation time (holding production costs down), if you make large caliber salami, or if you as non-commercial user don´t posess a realible fermentation chamber and want as short a critical start phase as possible, to minimize the risk of things going wrong.

The SACCO VBM-02 would probably be able to do the same job as F-1 except that is has two different Staphyloccocus strains and its Lactobacillus sakei provides listeria inhibition. The Pediococcus strain used in F-1 will probably acidify a bit more mildly but we are into nuances here, and as far as I remembe, the CH Pediococcus strain don´t provide listeria protection.
Wishing you a Good Day!
Igor The Dane
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