GDL

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crustyo44
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GDL

Post by crustyo44 » Thu Sep 04, 2014 21:08

Hi,
I noticed that a local supplier in Victoria sells GDL ( Glucono Delta Lactone) as an additive in successful Salami making.
Many years ago I made Salamis with nothing but salt and spices.
Do we have any members that have used this additive successfully?
Google list it as a help to Athletes in small quantities, other entries list it as dangerous.
Looking at the small quantities used in our hobby is there a down side to all this for use in Salami making.
Cheers,
Jan.
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Post by Chuckwagon » Fri Sep 05, 2014 02:40

Crusty ol' pard,
Glucono-delta-lactone is made from dextrose in microbial fermentation. It is also made by fermenting rice. In water, it hydrolyzes to gluconic acid very quickly. Inside our bodies it is completely metabolized and is non-toxic. It is found in honey, fruit juice, wine and a number of fermented foods. A "natural" food acid, it is only about a third as sour as citric acid and lowers pH, helping to preserve food from deterioration by enzymes and various microorganisms. Today, it is used in making cottage cheese, tofu, bakery products, and yup... some fast-fermented sausages.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Fri Sep 05, 2014 05:30

Hi Jan,

Igor provided some insight into GDL here:
http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... ght=#24707

And Marianski here:

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... ed-sausage

I bought some GDL a few months ago and have been thinking about finding something to try it with. What type of salami do you have in mind?

Chris
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Post by crustyo44 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 07:13

Hi Chris,
I have made Salami many years ago with my Italian friends. I supplied the Labour and the 2 pigs and they supplied their labour as well as their experience.
Over the weekend I will ring them to find out exactly what their recipe is.
Obviously it is Calabrian with a fair amount of home grown chilli powder/flakes etc etc.
I will keep you informed.
Cheers,
Jan.
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Sat Sep 06, 2014 23:25

Hi All! Hi Jan!
Finally resurfacing after a period of delightfull workload with (...guess what) FERMENTED MEAT PRODUCTS I would like to thank you Chris for referring to my previous thread on GdL. Actually IdaKraut (Rudy Reichelt) afterwards tried out using GdL in a 0,4% dosage in Landjäger and (if I remember right) found the effect to be generally OK but taste being a bit too much on the acidous side.

As said; GdL is good for facilitating a quick pH drop below the required 5,3 to make the water molecules let go of the protein, and as it will happen simultaneously throughout the whole calibre -whereas starter cultures will have a tendency to initiate a quicker pH drop close to the surface than in the indside of the product if humidity/temperature control is not optimal - GdL may save you for the risk of dry rim if you don´t posses a climate chamber.

However Jan -if you have previously made salami with salt´n spices and nothing else added and you survived eating the (probably delicious) result it I guess that you might thank the Brisbane climate with its presumably steady south Pacific wind which enables a good natural fermentation´and drying in the Italian style when the season and (low) temperatures allow. If that is the case I see no need to go to lengths with adding excessive amounts of GdL. A first test with a low dose of 0,25% to 0,3% will give you a hint if the disadvantages (woody consistency and a slight metallic off taste by excessive drying out) will be disagreeable.

Personally I would stick to starter cultures alone but as I mention in the dated posting; A slow starter culture may go well in combination with up to 0,4% GdL as it may make things easier if you have problems in controlling humidity or getting it up on the preferable 90 - 95% during the first days of fermentation.
Wishing you a Good Day!
Igor The Dane
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Post by IdaKraut » Sun Sep 07, 2014 03:38

Hi Igor and Jan,

Thanks Igor for posting. I've been busy doing other things lately but would like to reiterate what you said. When I tried GDL at 0.4% with T-SPX a while back (when making Landjagers) I was not too impressed with the taste it imparted. Yes the pH drop was dramatic.

The batch I made with only T-SPX starter culture was clearly a better choice resulting in excellent flavor with just the right drop in pH.
Rudy
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Sun Sep 07, 2014 17:04

Hello Rudy
Good to have you back (back for good would be even better :grin: )

I have the impression that GdL, or rather the effects of it, is an acquired taste that falls easier on the German or (in my case) Danish palate than compared to a more "south-style minded" audience that is used to naturally fermented/starter culture fermented meat products. Because north of the Alps where climate is less favorable and hardly guarantees a safe drying out process, the addition of GdL became for many years the standard pH-drop-facilitator and has, for better or rather; worse, set a certain standard for what a average butcher shop salami should taste like.

I guess our Danish newcomer member Jens will nod to this (-skriv gerne en personlig kommentar Jens :wink:) and if you should ever have the doubtfull pleasure of tasting a typical Danish "Kro-salami" (Country Inn Salami) or "Sonderjysk Salami" (Salami South-Jutland Style) you will probably wonder why we, once so blood thirsty Wikings, have settled with these strange soft, virtually undried and salty products where smoke and fat seems to be the predominant taste factors and meat color is substituted by a hearty dose of E-120 Carmine, because the Staphylococcus simply aren´t allowed any time for doing their job in of this meat-impowerished mash before pH is rammed down to 4,6 or even lower.
And in the vast majority of declarations of these products you will find E-575 somewhere down on the list...

Some time ago I posted a thread about this regional phenomena as a comment to Chuckwagons greatly improved recipe for Danish Salami which actually made me wish that ALL Danish Salami would be produced accordingly. Alas, I fear that the average Danish consumer would interpret the outcome as a typical "Italian Style Dried Salami" and hopefully prefer it to the Danish smoked softie -but as you know: silly traditions and bad habits are hard to get rid of :???:

By the way Rudy: did you serve your GdL + T-SPX to anybody familiar with the typical (North)German taste? I just wonder if you heard the exclamation: "Hey -this is almost what the thing tastes like in Krautland!" ?

Anyway as you´ve experienced: Sticking to T-SPX alone does give an advantage in taste, and if anybody should want more acidity-bite one can just increase on the dextrose and rise the fermentation temperature by a couple of celcius.
Wishing you a Good Day!
Igor The Dane
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Post by IdaKraut » Sun Sep 07, 2014 18:04

Igor Duńczyk wrote: By the way Rudy: did you serve your GdL + T-SPX to anybody familiar with the typical (North)German taste? I just wonder if you heard the exclamation: "Hey -this is almost what the thing tastes like in Krautland!" ?

Actually I did. I have a friend here that's originally from the north part of Germany and he thought it tasted like he remembered it. I was born in the southern part of Germany and although I was only 2 when we came to the US, mom would always buy sausages from a local sausage maker who hailed from the same part of Krautland, so that's the tastes I'm familiar with.
Rudy
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Post by crustyo44 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 05:22

Red,
Here are the ingredients that my Italian friends still use in their Salamies.
The following quantities are just guesses as the women always add the spices, not the salt and the plonk. They go by hand measurements only, no time for weighing spices as there are also the intestines to be cleaned afterwards, the bones, fat and skins boiled etc etc etc.
The taste is always to my liking.
For 20 Kg of meat and fat mix:
Ground black pepper 75 grams
course black pepper 35 grams
fennel seeds toasted and crushed 75 grams
whole black pepper corns 70 grams
2 bottles of Red plonk.
1 jar of hot pepper paste approx. 500 grams.

In another batch they use Mild Paprika powder, hot Paprika powder and Smoked paprika powder plus the rest of the required ingredients. no cure #2 in any of them.
The Smoked Paprika is 2 times the weight of the Sweet Paprika powder and the Hot PP twice that of the Sweet PP.
Cheers,
Jan.
Cheers,
Jan.
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Post by redzed » Mon Sep 08, 2014 06:00

Aha, now I know why you like that salami, but no garlic?! I made a picante finnocchiona salame recently, and love the stuff! With a bit of provolone, several glasses of primitivo, a good debate about whatever, and it does not get any better! I must have been Italian in my previous life! Thanks for posting the ingredients to that recipe. I copied it into my folders. Now how about some tips about the process?
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