Phosphates

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Tom
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Phosphates

Post by Tom » Mon Dec 28, 2015 17:48

I have come across several recipes that call for phosphates. Is there a particular phosphate that I should use? I see there are numerous types. I do have some super phosphate I purchased for brining it says its a blend of instantized sodium phosphates. Can I use this for ground meats or for a recipe that calls for phosphates? Thanks Tom
crustyo44
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Post by crustyo44 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 23:07

Tom, Phosphates are not really needed in any charcuterie at all. I prefer to keep everything I make as natural as possible.
Phosphate is mainly used by manufacturers to increase their bottom line.
Some people would say that it can be detrimental to good health.
Have a great 2016.
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Mon Dec 28, 2015 23:56

crustyo44 wrote:Tom, Phosphates are not really needed in any charcuterie at all. I prefer to keep everything I make as natural as possible.
Phosphate is mainly used by manufacturers to increase their bottom line.
Some people would say that it can be detrimental to good health.
Have a great 2016.
I concur with Crusty here. One of the reasons that we make our own sausage is that we want to recreate the traditional flavours without the large amount of industrial additives used by the large processors. Phosphates are used mostly to retain and even to add moisture in meat products. When pumped and then tumbled in whole muscle products, they help in an instantly brined product. I have been tempted in using phosphates in emulsified sausages, but to date have been successful without having to add them.
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Post by Tom » Tue Dec 29, 2015 02:57

Thanks for the replies but I'm still trying to determine what phosphate to use when a recipe asks for a phosphate. I'm am well aware of the debate about phosphates and it's not my intention to convince anyone about it's usage. I plan on using it as many prominent authors have listed list this item in their recipes. Phosphates are as natural as salt, nitrates, etc. It's all in how you use them. So anyone who knows which one to use I would appreciate your input. Thanks Tom
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Tue Dec 29, 2015 04:17

Tom wrote:Thanks for the replies but I'm still trying to determine what phosphate to use when a recipe asks for a phosphate.
Well, all that depends on what you are trying to do and what product you are making. There are several phosphate formulations available. I bought a pack of BRIFISOL® 450 Super, which is a blend of blend of pyrophosphates and polyphosphates. It's the only blend that this particular supplier (DNR Sausage Supplies, Calgary) carries. It is supposed to be versatile formulation for many different meat applications. I know that other suppliers serving the larger commercial market carry other blends. So it's probably best for you to contact the sellers and determine what your needs are.

Can you also reveal which particular recipes you have in mind that ask for phosphates, or provide the links to them?
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Post by Tom » Tue Dec 29, 2015 04:44

redzed

There are to many recipes to list but a good selection are on Mr Poli's site http://lpoli.50webs.com/. These recipes include either AmesPhos, phosphate, or sodium phosphate. Are these synonymous or are they distinctly different? Hence why I asked which to use. At this point I wouldn't know what to ask a seller. Tom
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Post by redzed » Tue Dec 29, 2015 05:28

All of what you listed are sodium phosphates. Amesphos is the brandname of a blend, probably silar to the one I mentioned. I checked Poli's website and he has a link to a 4 page document about phosphates here. http://lpoli.50webs.com/Tips.htm#Additives

I have used numerous recipes from Len Poli as he has a great collection. In fact my very successful Spaniata Romana was based on his formulation. However, I left out the milk powder and used a slower, more mild starter culture. All of Poli's recipes are very much Americanized versions of European sausages with additional ingredients used by commercial processors. Having said that, it may be that many like the flavour resulting from this chemical potpourri. :shock:
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