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Non Fat Dry Milk

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 17:58
by Tom
I have been using Carnation instant nonfat dry milk for recipes that call for dry milk. The ingredients show that there are approx. 96 grams of protein in a 272 gram bag. That's about 35% protein. Other ingredients are 5% sodium, 11% potassium, 4% sugar and a bunch of vitamins. The online places such as B&P and sausage maker sell milk powder but don't list the ingredients. I read on here recently somewhere not use store bought dry milk. When a recipe calls for dry milk which one should I use and where to get? Tom

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 01:07
by redzed
Instant non-fat milk is not the type that you should use in sausages. Rytek Kutas wrote; "If you are going to use a non-fat dry milk for a binder, your local dairy is usually the only place you can buy it today. The milk has to be a very fine powder and not the granules used for making milk at home. Better still, it should have the consistency of corn starch."

Today you can probably buy it from sausage supply stores and health food stores. I think it tastes better than soy in sausage, but that is just my opinion. And if you do use it, don't add the gargantuan amounts recommended by Kutas. 10 to 20 grams per kg. is enough to aid in moisture retention and binding. And you have to question whether it is really necessary. It is expensive and some of your friends and family may be lactose intolerant.

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 03:24
by Tom
Thanks again redzed

I did read that statement by Rytek Kutas and I'd like to know where he comes up with some of the things he says. I grew up on a dairy farm and worked at many others. We all had milk but none had the capability of producing dried milk. And yes all sausage supplies have dry milk and it's labeled as such, milk powder. Wasn't sure if there were other ingredients as there should be if it's dried milk. I was just trying to purchase the correct product. Again thanks to you green guys and few others that help answer newbie questions. Tom

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 05:07
by Butterbean
I might can shed a little light on this being I know a little something about running a dairy.

What Rytek is referring to is the milk replacer used to raise dairy calves. A dairy's job is to produce milk for sale and to do this the calf has to be off the teet as soon as possible else no milk will go in the pale. None in the pale means none for sale. To accomplish this the calves are fed milk replacer. There are many formulations but in general a non-medicated milk replacer will have around 24% protein and 24% fat and has the consistency - like Rytek says - of corn starch and its starchy feel gives me goose bumps whenever I handle it. Rytek is again right when he says any dairy will have this but many will be using medicated milk powder so if you go this route you might best order do some homework and be sure to order a non-medicated milk replacer. Google Calf Milk Replacer and there are lots of sources available. I think Rytek was unaware of the internet when he wrote his book. :lol:

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 13:52
by Bob K
I think the only reason Rytek says not to use the grocery store variety is because it is in flake form and not powdered, probably for mixing purposes ?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 15:44
by Butterbean
I'm not sure. I've seen recipes that call for adding water to the milk powder so this wouldn't seem to matter if its fine or grainy. I do know if you drink some calf replacer its much richer and creamier than a glass of NFD milk or even store bought milk.

There are other formulations but all seem to be based on the same target energy of 2000 calories per pound. The lowest I know contains only 10% fat with 28% protein. Since the energy from the fat has been reduced they add lactose to the formulation to make up for the loss in calories by way of the sugar.

For instance, calf replacer with 10% fat would be made up of 28% protein and 52% lactose and one formulated with 26% fat would have 28% protein and only 36% lactose and both would have the same calories per pound.

Why he prefers this I haven't a clue. Never thought of using it but it would be cheaper.

Just thinking aloud here but if its much easier to dissolve the flaked powder in water than it is this milk replacer because adding it to water is like adding garlic powder to water and it clumps up terribly and mixing it into a solution can be a royal pain. But this and garlic powder, I think, would mix better in dry ingredients. Or could it be the added fat or the sugar? Fat does wonders for sausages. I don't know. Interesting. Just another thing to smoke over I guess.

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 20:24
by harleykids
My local grocery store didn't have any "non-instant" skim milk powder, only the "instant" variety.
But I did notice that the instant variety that they had was the same consistency as corn wasn't the typical granular type.

So I substituted that when I made some chicken feta spinach last night. Sausage came out fantastic, couldn't tell the difference consistency-wise to the non-instant kind....maybe I just got lucky!

Nestle Carnation Instant Nonfat Dry Milk, and has "LECHE" written in large font on the front.
Maybe it's the Mexican version, but whatever version it is it is literally like fine baby powder.

Would post a pic but imageshack wants $38 as my month free ran out long ago!

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 17:01
by redzed
This is a recurring question and a subject of confusion to many who see non fat dry milk powder in a recipe. What is required, and is standard in the industry, is a non-instant product that is also referred to as High Heat Non Fat Dry Milk. This product is not available on supermarket shelves and is made for food processors of all colours. It is a fine powder, like corn starch which is produced under high temperatures. It has a high water holding capacity and if you want to reconstitute it for drinking as milk it takes a few hours to dissolve fully. Instant non fat dry milk dissolves immediately when water is added and has very low water holding capacity. Adding it to sausage does absolutely nothing. If the non-instant type is unavailable, you can substitute soy protein powder.

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 17:11
by harleykids
I guess I need to order some non-instant nonfat milk powder, and some phosphate, as I see some recipes call for adding phosphate to sausage as well. I am sure the same debate rages on using phosphates...!

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 22:53
by martin
Redzed how is better , sprinkle NFDR over mince or mix with te water first then add to the ground meat?

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 19:55
by Butterbean
martin wrote:Redzed how is better , sprinkle NFDR over mince or mix with te water first then add to the ground meat?
The kind he's referring to doesn't mix well with liquid. IMO, best to just add to meat and mix well.

Its been my experience that most sausages calling for additives like this can be made without it if you do your process properly and mix well. I think these additives are helpful in fixing flaws in your technique more than anything. Maybe not in all cases but in many. I still use them in things like bologna because I need all the help I can get when it comes to emulsions.

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 21:12
by martin
I just trying make a smoked sausage good for grilling, I eat sausage like this in Poland ,witch they very popular in Poland,like here hamburgers on the grill.
So I tried to make without any binders,but on the grill sausage lose very fast,moist and juicy and getting dry and crumble,and this I eat In Poland,was grilled some off time and still juicy but not rubber,or not taste like hot dogs.
So I gonna try tomorrow when making sausage ad some nfdm(1%) an we see, I have meat 20% fat.
I try already phosphate,but sausage was like rubber,
So if NFDM not working,try next time maybe make 25% emulsion from class 3 meat plus 1/4 tsp phosphate for 2,5 lb just emulsion and 7,5 lb meat class 2 ,25% fat.
So I gonna be experimenting that long when I make smoked sausage for the grill, witch satisfied my teaste,and gonna be close to sausage witch I eat In Poland.

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 16:33
by redzed
martin wrote:Redzed how is better , sprinkle NFDR over mince or mix with te water first then add to the ground meat?
I usually add the milk in powder form together with the other spices, add ice cold water and mix. As BB said, it's really not necessary but can help in holding water and result in a juicier sausage. Just make sure you use the non instant variety.

And be carefull not to over cook the sausage, or it will be dry. If cooked to no more than an IT of 75C, there is no reason why a grilled fresh (not smoked) sausage should be dry or crumbly.