Starter culture. Biobak Ultra Plus For Raw Salami

markjass · Post by **markjass** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 13:43

While I am experimenting with my curing chamber and waiting for my control switch to arrive I am looking into starter cultures. The only one that is availably locally is Biobak Clasic Plus. The person who I spoke to about the product was not that informative about it. Any of you people out there know of this culture.

My cure #2 arrived a couple of days ago from the UK. Not surprisingly customs opened the package (I would have been very surprised if they did not). They did not open the individual packages.

Thanks Mark

crustyo44 · Post by **crustyo44** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 22:29

Hi Mark,
Biobak Classic Plus is a good quality starter culture from Germany.
Have a look at Wibergs website.It's in german but they also have an English version.
www.wiberg.eu/de/fleishwaren and look at another one. www.zeder-gmbh.at also in german.
just use your translator.
Advise and some instructions are available on both sites.
I think that the instructions are on the packet anyway.
Good luck Mate,
Jan.
Brisbane.

markjass · Post by **markjass** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:17

Thanks Jan

Neither site mentions Clasic Plus. I am wondering if Clasic plus is the same as ultra Plus. I had to get some supplies today and had a chat with the staff. They got a packet out for me and it said for fermentation up to 28 degrees. No indication of how long to run the fermentation at this temperature.

I used the Wiberg site contact and asked a number of questions. I sent it on the 24 th June . As yet I have not had a reply.

Mark

crustyo44 · Post by **crustyo44** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 21:05

Hi Mark,
It doesn't surprise me that you have no answer yet. Europeans think that we are the arse end of the world and still hop around like kangaroos.
We are only important to them if they need our money or fighting men.
Matter of fact, I am going to send them an email as well for some information.
Cheers Mate,
Jan.

crustyo44 · Post by **crustyo44** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 09:24

Hi Mark,
I looked at the Wiberg site again and they have several Salami recipes with procedures, temperatures, time limits and weight loss targets etc
Good Luck Mate,
Jan.

kaiyara · Post by **kaiyara** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 13:24

Neither site mentions Clasic Plus. I am wondering if Clasic plus is the same as ultra Plus. I had to get some supplies today and had a chat with the staff. They got a packet out for me and it said for fermentation up to 28 degrees. No indication of how long to run the fermentation at this temperature.

I used the Wiberg site contact and asked a number of questions. I sent it on the 24 th June . As yet I have not had a reply.

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 13:41

kaiyara wrote:Neither site mentions Clasic Plus. I am wondering if Clasic plus is the same as ultra Plus. I had to get some supplies today and had a chat with the staff. They got a packet out for me and it said for fermentation up to 28 degrees. No indication of how long to run the fermentation at this temperature.

I used the Wiberg site contact and asked a number of questions. I sent it on the 24 th June . As yet I have not had a reply.

You are asking about a different product and process. Also please indicate if 28 degrees is Fahrenheit or centigrade.

Post by **redzed** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 14:40

markjass wrote:Thanks Jan

Neither site mentions Clasic Plus. I am wondering if Clasic plus is the same as ultra Plus. I had to get some supplies today and had a chat with the staff. They got a packet out for me and it said for fermentation up to 28 degrees. No indication of how long to run the fermentation at this temperature.

I used the Wiberg site contact and asked a number of questions. I sent it on the 24 th June . As yet I have not had a reply.

Mark

In quickly looking at the Wiberg site, Classic plus is a starter culture, while Ultra Plus is a phosphate product. The length of the fermentation process would be dependent on how fast you achieve a drop in Ph. Wiberg does not appear to cater to the hobbyist or home producer but rather to the commercial user.

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:16

Hi Mark,

Biobak Classic Plus is a traditional culture consisting of Pediococcus pentosaceus and Staphylococcus carnosus which will most probably give a mild and aromatic result, without tanginess unless you add too much fermentable sugar.

How much, and which kind of sugar(s) does your recipe prescribe ?

I would like to remark, that knowing Wiberg from my work in Poland as a high quality supplier of spice blends and ingredient compounds I am pretty sure that their range of cultures are acquired from outside and merely blended and packed at their factory (which is the case for many ingredient producers who include starter cultures in their product range).
Nothing wrong with that, but for me it´s a bit like crossing the river for water, unless your local Christian Hansen, Danisco or Gewürzmüller distrubuter (just to name a few "real" starter culture producers) refuses to sell you less than 50 sachets at a time

The three mentioned are top-notch culture producers, but another one (with whom I, admittedly, am somewhat involved) is the Italian company SACCO whose Australian based distributor you may address on rosie@coosheen.com (...not knowing whether SACCO´s Down Unda´guys want to sell you less than 50 sachets

)

An advantage with SACCO´s starter cultures are that many of them contain bacteria strains which provide protection against Listeria growth. A feature which has found its way into some Christian Hansen and Gewürzmüller cultures, but scarcely in any salami cultures offered by Wiberg. Not a must if you keep good kitchen hygiene, but Listeria has an eerie tendency to carry over from one foodstuff to another by slight contact.

I would recommend the traditional SACCO starter culture Lyocarni SBM-52 with added Listeria protection. It contains two kinds of Pediococcus and two kinds of Staphylococcus and is also mildly acidifying but not that slow. And with a higher total cell count than Biobak Classic Plus the good bacteria are more likely to dominate right from the start.

I have tried SBM-52 at a small producer who had no climate chamber and it worked very well, as we managed to keep up high humidity in his traditional cooking chamber which was used instead.

So why settle with a Porsche when you can have a Ferrari at a perhaps even lower price ?

Best regards
Igor The Dane

crustyo44 · Post by **crustyo44** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 21:05

Hi Igor,
Thank you for all that information. I certainly will RING Sacco's distributors to check up about the availability through some of their commercial producers if they won't supply direct.
Hansen has a very limited supply of cultures and certainly no mould cultures in Australia.
Cheers,
Jan.

tazplas · Post by **tazplas** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 23:45

Sounds like a plan Jan.

I might call Rosie at Cooshen today.
FYI - http://www.saccosrl.it/en/prodotti/colt ... -la-carne/
They also supply dairy cultures for cheese etc.

and Coosheen - http://www.coosheen.com/commercial/lyocarni/

Cheers

Steve

tazplas · Post by **tazplas** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 03:20

Got a reply back from Rosie at Coosheen.
Coosheen only sell to commercial setups but she has pointed me to where we can get the SACCO Lyocarni VBM-02. Try http://www.greenlivingaustralia.com.au/
Data sheet is here - http://www.greenlivingaustralia.com.au/ ... M-02-1.pdf

Cheers

Steve

crustyo44 · Post by **crustyo44** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 07:24

CW,
Could you enter Steve's posts in the Oz/NZ section, PLEASE!!
Thank you,
Jan.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 23:32

Done. Thanks Tas!

ursula · Post by **ursula** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 09:31

Hi all,
I looked at the Green Living site (where I get my cheesemaking supplies too) and it says that Lyocarni VBM-02-1 contains Lactobacillus sakei,Staphylococcus camosus, and Staphylococcus xylosus. It costs $17.50.
However this can be bought at Master Butchers in Adelaide for $12.60 as F-RM -7, which according to Marianski, contains the same strains.
This does not appear to have the same Listeria protection as F-LC (which we can't get here).
Pediococcus seems to be the missing ingredient we need.
Is that correct CW?
I will keep looking!
Regards Ursula