chr hansen Flc culture

canadianwildman · Post by **canadianwildman** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 19:20

Hi everyone:) I am planning on making a fermented polish sausage, both a dry type and a semi dry type. I know the semi dry uses cure1, and the dry cure2, but I am wondering can I use the chr hansen FLC culture for both??
Al

ssorllih · Post by **ssorllih** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 20:05

Ithink that the answer to your question lies here: http://www.wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopi ... =4292#4292
Chuckwagon posted a rather comprehensive paper on the proper cultures for each use.

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:25

Hi Al, the answer is Yup,

you certainly may, although for the best flavor, (less tang-more European flavor)the fully dry-cured sausage would perhaps be better with a long-term T-SPX culture at about 2 months or more. However, Bactoferm™ F-LC is indeed, a culture used for sausage with short or traditional fermentation times.
It also carries both lactobacillus curvatus and pediococcus acidilactici for added protection against Listeria monocytogenes. F-LC is actually recommended for the production of all types of fermented sausages and production times depend upon fermentation temperature. Acidification is either traditional, fast or extra fast. F-LC is a mixed culture containing Pediococcus acidilactici, Lactobacillus curvatus and Staphylococcus xylosus. A 25-gram packet of Bactoferm™ F-LC will treat 220 pounds (100 kilo) of meat. You can use the whole packet in 100 pounds of meat or use half of the packet and refreeze remaining culture. Edited 11.2/11 [Authors Polcyn and Ruhlman of "Charcuterie" would have us...]Use 1/4 of a packet in any production under 50 pounds of meat. See statement below.
On the other hand, recipes by Stan Marianski contain 1.25 grams (1/2 tspn.) of F-LC culture per 11 lbs. of sausage.

Technically, semi-dry cured sausage may be made with or without cultures and may or may not be pre-cooked. However, due to modern health concerns, it is recommended that all semi-dry cured sausages be par-cooked. Commercially, this application is now required. Semi-dry cured sausage is usually cured by fermenting the sausage at least 48 hours rendering an acidic content of pH 5.2 or lower, then by drying it to a point below Aw 0.89 or lower. This type of sausage is normally cured using Cure #1 (nitrite) as reservoirs of nitrate are not needed in short-term fermentation.

Semi-dry cured sausages are usually ground a little more coarsely and are made safe by an acidification level reaching pH 5.3 (or less). If a "fast" culture such as LHP is used, this may be accomplished in as little as two days. A "medium" culture such as F-RM-52 requires about 4 days. If these quick-acting cultures are used, it should be understood that the sausage will be "tangy" as staphylococcus and micrococcus "flavor and color-forming" bacteria simply do not have time to develop. The recipe for this type of sausage will almost always contain some additional sugar for the lactic acid bacteria to work on quickly to more effectively raise the acidity. Applying smoke during the fermentation stage is not recommended as smoke contains substances which may impede reactions between meat and beneficial bacteria, especially in the surface area.

Unlike dry-cured sausages, the semi-dry variety is usually pre-cooked and par-cooked to about 140°F. after fermenting and smoking have taken place. By reaching and surpassing the temperature of 138° F., the threat of trichinella spiralis is eliminated. Often this cooking step is accomplished while the smoking is being done.

Let us know how you fare with your project.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

ABeck · Post by **ABeck** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 04:42

Hello, I have a doubt about using F-LC. As far as I've researched, in my country (Costa Rica) its hard to find supplies for long cures and short cures with no cooking, basically I couldn't find cure salt #2 neither any starter culture, so I had to order them from abroad with a relative that made a trip to the USA, so I can't access them easily.

I bought F-LC because it was more versatile so I had to buy only that internal culture. So how I do use it when a recipe tells me to use another culture? For example, how does the fermentating (? excuse my english) time changes for a fast acidification or the dextrose or sugar quantity? or I can do everything normally?

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 07:59

Saludarte! Basically I would regard the F-LC as a traditional culture on the fast side. That means; if you ferment at high temperatures it will ferment relatively fast and provide a quick pH drop (at least one contributor here has experieced this with F-LC) whereas if you keep fermentation temperature at 20 - 22 Celcius it will be slower, allowing the staphylococcus do their essential part of the work (aroma and color formation). Just check Chuck´s posting above...

As for fermentable sugar I recommend dextrose and tangyness/sourness will depend on how much you add.
0,3% is usually the min. recommended dosage to activate the starter culture and preferable if you want a mild acidification.
If you make small calibre fermented sausages in pork casings the dextrose may be reduced to 0,25% or even less, as the pH drop will take place relatively faster than in a "real" salami calibre of 45 or 60 mm. Also, if your sausages are very lean and low in fat there will be more residual glucogen in the meat tissue which will provide nutrition for the culture.

ericrice · Post by **ericrice** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 16:53

Okay, this raised a question I have been meaning to research and detail for myself - through my learning I understand that different sugars have different purposes and can alter the end result. Does anyone have something already that shows the common sugars and somethign that would detail the pros/cons of use in certain situations (i.e. short cure times, long cure times, etc). I know the different ones are broken down at differing rates.

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 19:04

ericrice wrote:...I understand that different sugars have different purposes and can alter the end result...

and depending on how many answers that are going to tick in from now on you may soon be facing a bunch of answers that goes in different directions.

I guess that most of you will agree with me, that the "main scool" say: Stick to dextrose because that is the one fermentable sugar that most strains are likely to be able to ferment with no hesitation or delay. However you will also often hear the oppinion that a mix of dextrose, glucose and cristaline sugar in various combinations will add flavour nuances that you won´t obtain with dextrose alone. I hope other members will join in on this with their experiences, as I have seldom detracted from the dextrose-only practice myself.

From the scientific sources that I can draw from in my back yard

there should not be any significant difference in the organoleptic qualities of the acid produced just because the source of nutricion is changed, but that does not exclude the likeliness that some different enzymatic reactions in the meat may be dependent on the kind of sugars present.
The real difference in "acid taste quality" is far more linked to the type of bacteria in question, as different strains may change characteristics depending on the physical circumstances which they are exposed to and which (in the worst case) may cause them to turn out some unwanted bi-products during fermentation.

It is also a question of the dextrose equivalent of the sugar in question, meaning that a mere gram per gram swop from one kind of sugar to another may not provide nutrition enough for the bacteria (or vice versa). Most notably in the case of maltoextrin where the dextrose equivalent may be as low as one fifteenth of dextrose (however this is individual from one maltodextrin to another, so CHECK IT OUT before you buy it and use it!).

Namely maltodextrin (which -if I remember Chuck right - is also known in the US as "Corn solids"

) is said to provide a longer lasting nutrition -so that is one type of sugar that should be beneficial for long time curing in combination with dextrose. But it remains for me to test sometime, if maltodextrin alone, in a dosage high enough to match the dextrose equivalent, would be able to trigger the fermentation process just fast as dextrose does, or if it would just drag out the lag phase ad infinitum.
If anybody have experiences in this field -please join in now!

And one important fact: No culture can be "speeded up" just by raising the amount of sugar. All you gain is a lower pH and more tanginess.
Just as I don´t know of any "faster" sugar than dextrose. However, you may also risk to drag the lag phase in lenghts by adding too little sugar. But then again, one has to consider which particular strains are in question and if you are dealing with a slow or a fast starter culture. A. e.: for an aggresive Lactobacillus curvatus in a fast starter culture, even as little as 0,3% dextrose may be enough to provide a notable acid profile to the taste. Especially if the curvatus made pH drop so fast that there was no time for the staphylococci to build up some tasty meat aroma to round off the tanginess.

There is only one way to speed up starter cultures and that is by raising the fermentation temperature...

ABeck · Post by **ABeck** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 16:42

Thanks a lot.

And I have an additional doubt. For example, if a recipe tells me to use T-SPX and ferment at 20c (68f) for 72 hours at 90-85% humidity and drying for 2-3 months, how do I convert it to using F-LC? I do exactly the same?