difficulty getting mold to grow

Lorenzoid
User
User
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 18:09
Location: Atlanta

difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Lorenzoid » Mon Jun 07, 2021 16:50

These are my very first efforts at dry curing. I cured my first few coppe without mold to establish a baseline of what to expect. The results were fine. Now I am trying the same recipes except that I want to see what effect mold might have on flavor and texture.

I prepared the mold by adding something like half a teaspoon of Bactoferm 600--probably way more than is necessary--to 25 ml of distilled water at about 26-27C (room temperature in my home in summer) and letting it rest 12 hours. Because I needed only enough for one coppa, I did not dilute it further. I allowed the stuffed (in beef bung) coppa to reach about the same temperature and applied the mold solution by brushing it on with a pastry brush. I did not then maintain the coppa at that sort of "fermentation temperature" but rather placed it directly in the drying chamber at about 12-13C (53-55F) and 76-78 percent RH. Was that a mistake? No mold appeared after several days in the drying chamber under those conditions. I tried again by preparing a similar 25 ml of solution but this time allowing it to rest overnight--much more than 12 hours--before applying it to the coppa. Still no mold appeared after several days. I tried yet again by preparing a larger amount, diluting with a bit more distilled water, letting it rest yet another 12 hours or so, and then instead of brushing it on I rolled the coppa around in a shallow tray of the solution. Still no mold appeared.

Should I keep the coppa out of the drying chamber (say, at room temperature) for a "fermentation" period (say, 24 hours) to help the mold establish itself? Could my chamber temperature be too low for mold?

The packet of Bactoferm 600 has a manufacture date of April 12, 2020, and advises that the product be used before April 6, 2022. I keep it in the freezer. I don't recall ever reading of someone encountering a dead mold package.
User avatar
Albertaed
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 23:22
Location: Peace River Alberta

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Albertaed » Tue Jun 08, 2021 00:22

It sounds like it’s only been a day or so since you put it in do dry. Give it a week or so. it’s all about patience lol . It’ll be in there for a month or 2 anyway . Good luck and keep us posted
User avatar
StefanS
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 00:12
Location: Mass

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by StefanS » Tue Jun 08, 2021 13:00

Usually what I do - soaking beef bung for couple of hours changing water 2-3 times (lukewarm water). After staffing coppa i let it hang for couple of hours in room temperature and room humidity (sometimes over night)- reason - took out dripping water. Then diluted Mold 600 (20-30 min. only) with amount similar to yours. Brushed or sprayed over piece/pieces of meat and let it drip excess of solution for approximately 30-40 min. Then to curing chamber with similar set-up to yours. After few days up to one week mold is growing.
Lorenzoid
User
User
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 18:09
Location: Atlanta

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Lorenzoid » Tue Jun 08, 2021 16:24

Thanks, Ed and Stefan. The first effort didn't develop visible mold after 7 days, but then I had to terminate the experiment because I was leaving town for a couple of weeks and couldn't tend to my drying chamber's humidifier refills, so I vacuum-sealed it and put it in the regular fridge, knowing that would kill any mold. When I returned home, I removed it from the fridge, let the surface reach room temperature, re-applied mold, and replaced it in the chamber. That was on Saturday. Today is Tuesday. No mold visible yet. Okay, I'll be patient.

Another thought is that if the beef bung was soaked in tap water (chlorinated by the city), could that inhibit the mold? Maybe a final soak in distilled water would help?
User avatar
Albertaed
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 23:22
Location: Peace River Alberta

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Albertaed » Tue Jun 08, 2021 21:35

I use the same distilled water I use for starter culture. It’s definitely worth a try. It’s weird because I literally only inoculated one batch and have had it in my chamber ever since. Once new product goes in it will have mold in no time.
User avatar
StefanS
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 00:12
Location: Mass

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by StefanS » Wed Jun 09, 2021 02:11

Hello Ed - check that post - viewtopic.php?p=40369#p40369
Main reason that i inoculate my batches every time before putting them to curing chamber.
Indaswamp
Frequent User
Frequent User
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 05:46

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Indaswamp » Wed Jun 09, 2021 08:00

Try increasing the chamber temp to 58*F. Mold grow is very slow at 52*F....it will eventually grow to cover the product, but the increased temp. will help get it started.
User avatar
Albertaed
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 23:22
Location: Peace River Alberta

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Albertaed » Wed Jun 09, 2021 17:57

StefanS wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 02:11
Quote Hello Ed - check that post - viewtopic.php?p=40369#p40369
Main reason that i inoculate my batches every time before putting them to curing chamber.
Hi Stefan

I always use a starter culture. What I meant to say is I haven’t needed to use a surface mold every time. It forms from the salamis I already have in the chamber. Is this what you were pointing at?
Lorenzoid
User
User
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 18:09
Location: Atlanta

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Lorenzoid » Wed Jun 09, 2021 18:29

Indaswamp wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 08:00
Try increasing the chamber temp to 58*F. Mold grow is very slow at 52*F....it will eventually grow to cover the product, but the increased temp. will help get it started.
I need to experiment with moving the temperature probe around. It's at the top of the chamber, and the temperature controller's reading fluctuates around an average of about 54-55F, with some spikes higher and lower. The temperature lower in the chamber may be lower.

I recall reading somewhere that letting the temperature reach an average of 60F or above is bad, so I have been erring on the side of 55F or lower.
User avatar
Albertaed
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 23:22
Location: Peace River Alberta

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Albertaed » Thu Jun 10, 2021 00:29

I personally don’t like to go much above 54F
User avatar
StefanS
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 00:12
Location: Mass

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by StefanS » Thu Jun 10, 2021 02:04

Albertaed wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 17:57
StefanS wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 02:11
Quote Hello Ed - check that post - viewtopic.php?p=40369#p40369
Main reason that i inoculate my batches every time before putting them to curing chamber.
Hi Stefan

I always use a starter culture. What I meant to say is I haven’t needed to use a surface mold every time. It forms from the salamis I already have in the chamber. Is this what you were pointing at?
starter cultures means LAB with/or Staphylococci. I have mention - Mold 600 - it is fungi Penicillum nalgiovence and we are talking about it. Many years ago P. nalgiovence was selected as "very good" mold cover for technical process of cured meats. (there are few more in commercial world). Anyway - P. nalgiovence is used as for applications in cured meats at every time a new batch is produced. It is good when is applied with "starter culture of Mold 600". Means inoculation is reaching hundreds milions of cells per 1square inch. Other wise cells of P. nalgiovence are no match for "wild" cells of different molds. Our Mold 600 cells have no ability in good surviving in "harsh" environmental of curing chambers. Some of my polish colleagues used to spray inside of curing chamber instead batches. And they got surprises - black, blue, grey, spots on salumi surfaces instead nice white mold. So what i'm mentioning - every new batch of cured meats should be inoculated with fresh dose of Mold 600 (Penicillium nalgiovence) if you prefer good surface covering by mold and less surprises.
Lorenzoid
User
User
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 18:09
Location: Atlanta

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Lorenzoid » Thu Jun 10, 2021 16:44

I have mold starting to grow on the bresaola I inoculated and put in the drying chamber five days ago, but although I re-inoculated the uncooperative coppa at the same time, nothing is growing on the coppa yet. I don't have a good way of logging the temperature, but I suspect the chamber has been averaging 1-2 degrees F warmer lately; the compressor has been cycling more frequently due to higher summer temperatures. So it would appear that temperature and time were the factors, as you suggested.

I appreciate all the mold information. Fascinating stuff.
User avatar
Mmmm Meat
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2021 15:45
Location: Longview, WA

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Mmmm Meat » Fri Jun 11, 2021 20:53

You didn't say whether you smoked the coppa or not. Many times smoking is used in advance of the drying - I've gone both ways with mine. Smoking the meat has an inhibitory effect on mold growth (which would of course explain your problem).

Seems like my capicola have all been pretty minimally covered in mold - nothing like the appearance of a typical salami fur coat of mold. I'm guessing the beef bung is less porous than hog casings or beef middles, so there might be less available meat derived nutrition to sustain the mold growth on the bung. Dunno.
User avatar
Albertaed
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 23:22
Location: Peace River Alberta

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by Albertaed » Fri Jun 11, 2021 23:24

Good point. I’m not a fan of mold on coppa so I give it a little smoke to keep it off.
User avatar
magician176
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 23:05

Re: difficulty getting mold to grow

Post by magician176 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 22:42

I had a problem with my salami not having any mold grow on the casings, yet the salami came out to be superb. I bought casings then from another company and suddenly the casings started to grow heavy mold. I then realized that the previous casings were synthetic and the new casing were not., So now all my casings grow heavy thick white mold.
Post Reply