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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 02:38
by ssorllih
I have a friend who is in the sugar industry and icing sugar is simply very finely ground plain sugar. So you can put a teaspoonful in your mortar and grind it very finely in the event that you don't have any.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 02:40
by ssorllih
This one will be next.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 03:36
by Chuckwagon
Beautiful mahogany color! How does it taste Jja?

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 03:54
by Jja
smell is great, Im putting it in the curing chamber for a few days to drop a bit of the moisture. It was part of a trial, I made a larger batch that is fridge curing in chunks per Marianski before grinding and stuffing.
I looked a bit, but Im not really finding a clear reason for doing this, other than maybe allowing those ever present bacteria vs a hansen culture to do a bit of lactic acid production before grinding?
I hope to have some of both to compare flavors, and then I will report as requested.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 14:43
by Gulyás
I can't make sausage now, I'll later, but I make time to read.

When we say kielbasa, we mean hundreds of different kind....or maybe thousands....

So is kolbász. (csabai in this case) I just want to remind you, that you can stuff the same mixture in all different size of casings, but than you change other thing too.
If you stuff it in small casing, it'll be similar looking like kabanosi.

Links. ... sz-t81414/

So it's good idea to use much more water if say you want to stuff it into small casing, using 3/8"=10 mm. stuffing tube, and you don't let it sit in the fridge to harden up.
On the other hand, if you want to stuff it into 4 inch (100 mm.) casing, than most likely you don't want lots of water, and cure # 2, not cure # 1.

I think that the main reason we make our own sausage is, that we can control what goes into it, and we DO change the recipe to our own taste.

Sausage, looking like salami..... ... ft_HU_kb_0

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 15:29
by Cabonaia
This really interests me. I would really appreciate some explanation of how to go about tweaking the same sausage recipe to produce different types of sausage, as Gulyas is mentioning. What are the general principles?

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 16:12
by ssorllih
If you study the recipes here: And compare the differences and the similarities and also read the comments attached to most of the recipes you can begin to get a feel for the way sausage is created.
To start with we all like salt and pepper on our meat so that is a good ingredient for sausage. garlic is wonderful with some food so perhaps it is a good ingredient for sausage. Then we have the many herbs. I make a baked lemon ,basil, white wine cut up chicken dish so maybe that combination would be good in sausage.
I often prepare a dish and we eat it and consider what we liked about it and what it needed. We do the same with sausage.
After all when you consider sausage as basic it is ground pork and salt and pepper. form it into a patty and eat it with an egg and some toast. But it will lack something. Sage is good. Add a little sage make another patty. See why butchers tend to be a bit fat?

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 21:00
by Cabonaia
Ross - Thanks, but I didn't explain myself very well. I meant, how do you take a basic recipe/formula and modify it to make a fresh, semi-dry, dry, or spreadable sausage?

Take csbai as an example. I am not sure anyone is interested in making a spreadable csbai (though why not?), but how shall we modify ingredients and process to make fesh, semi-dry, and dry variation of this certain product? And what are the basic principles being followed?

Fresh - cure #1 optional
Semi-dry - cure #1, and.....(more/less water etc.), drying time/humidity
Dry - cure #2, culture, modifications to x ingredients, incubation and drying time/humidity
Spreadable - cure, differences, soft/belly fat instead of back fat, etc.

Am I making sense now?

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 21:02
by Cabonaia
And yes, I not only see, but know personally why butchers tend to be a bit fat!

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 21:56
by ssorllih
Sorry that answer is above my pay grade. :lol:

Hungarian Csabai

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 03:42
by snagman
Good day to you all gentlemen and others !
I am truly humbled by the acceptance of my recipe and the generous praise heaped upon the sausage......... :oops:
Now, are there any questions, worries, reservations, comments, both negative and positive regarding the making thereof ?
About paprika - the deeper the red colour, the better the paprika - avoid other countries of origin, eg Spain - store in a tight container, avoiding light - never store in the fridge - long terms storage, vacuum bag - loses its colour in freezer stored sausage after eight weeks or so ( solution, eat prior... )
About cooking the fresh sausage - in a frypan, add water to about 1/3 of the way up the sausage - simmer, turning a few times until the water is cooked off - slightly increase temperature until golden colour. The resulting fat in the pan can be used to sauté precooked potatoes.... heaven !

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 04:26
by grasshopper
Snagman or CW can you go over the cold smoking process for me. I have an electric smoker and a A-maze-n pellet smoker box. If I am right, it would be the pellet box and no heat.? Some heat from the burning pellets. No internal temperature, just drying.? All confused and want to do it right.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 05:50
by Chuckwagon
Sure Grasshopper! Allow me to take a crack at it eh? :wink:

Cold Smoking vs. Hot Smoking

Cold smoking is a drying process usually involving many hours for several days or even weeks. On the other hand, hot-smoking is a smoking-prep cooking process usually finished relatively shortly (within hours). To ensure a constant breakdown of nitrate into nitrite in cold-smoking sausages, Cure #2 is most often used. However, occasionally in some comminuted sausage, the use of Cure #1 may be specified. Cold-smoked products are not usually smoked continuously as fresh air is usually allowed into the smoker at regular intervals to allow time for complete penetration of smoke deep into muscle tissues. As moisture leaves the meat, the product will become naturally rigid.

Because cold-smoked meat and fish products are not cooked, cold smoking is an entirely contrasting process from hot-smoking as the heat source is remote and the smoke is "piped" into the smokehouse from several feet away, giving the smoke time to cool down. Most often, the cold-smokehouse is elevated higher than the heat source, or the smoke is forced inside by a fan.

Because fish begins to cook at 85°F. (30°C.), the temperature in most American "cold-smoke houses" is less than 85° F. (29°C.) and often much lower in order to prevent spoilage. In Russia and many parts of Europe, the upper limit has been 71°F. (22°C.).

Cold-smoked products must contain nitrite or nitrate/nitrite cures to be safe because even using thin smoke, oxygen is cut off and most obligate anaerobic bacteria, some facultative anaerobic bacteria, and even some microaerophile bacteria may thrive. Never cold-smoke fresh sausage or any meat product without using a curing agent.

Some dry-cured (raw) sausages are held for weeks in cold-smoke while they continue to dehydrate safely below .85 Aw. Initially they are protected from pathogenic bacteria by the sausage`s salt content. This affords their only protection while the lactic acid is being produced by lactobacilli and pediococci bacteria. Additionally, some semi-dry cured sausages may be cold-smoked after they have been prep-cooked. Again, although cold smoking is not a continuous process, it usually assures deep smoke penetration. It is usually discontinued overnight, allowing fresh air to assist with the uniform loss of moisture.

Best Wishes,


Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 07:55
by snagman

Putting my 2 cent's worth in, because I use an Amazen pellet smoker too, sitting inside the smoker. My smoker for cold smoking is a plywood cabinet, which helps to insulate the products being smoked from the outside temperature. The pellet smoker adds about 12 ° C if half filled (that is, half the height). Using hickory pellets, I smoke the sausages for 8 - 10 hours, for three days, each with a day of rest between. I always want thin, blue smoke, not billowing white, and fresh incoming air must be allowed to mix with the smoke. It is not advisable to oversmoke the sausages, which will result in a bitter taste. After that, I hang in the fridge for three weeks or so, wanting to feel a dense texture to them, vacuum bag and fridge/freezer after that. The internal temperature of the smoker should not go above 30° C - 86 F. If you are doing this in winter, no problem, but the sausage must not freeze either.
Will be looking out for your photos Mate !
The rest is what CW said.....
Regards, Gus

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 15:09
by ssorllih
There is another aspect to the ways of smoking meat. I apply cold smoke for a few hours and then finish the meat or sausage in my oven at the lowest possible settings, about 170°F.
This method is mentioned in the smoking section of Home Production of Quality meats and sausages.