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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 20:37
by ssorllih
Too my completely untrained eye those appear to be smaller than the casings suggested in the opiginal recipe. That would account for some of the short time drying. But the cut end appears to be completely uniform in color. If probing with a butter knife revealed uniforn firmness and if it smelled good I would do the old taste test. If the mouth feel and taste passed, I would cheerfully eat it.

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 21:37
by uwanna61
:lol: already tried it, feels fine and tastes ok, the outside appearance just looks wrinkly and dry. To be on the safe side, maybe eat a slice with a shot of whisky :?:

I'm sure the fast drying comes from the fan. I do have a rheostat to control the fan, but again, in the past I have made fermented salami and never had an issue with drying to quick, if anything took forever. I shut it off for now.

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 07:38
by Chuckwagon
Hi Uwanna,
You wrote:
are you implying that the fermentation time was not long enough?
Naw pard, I'm not implying anything. I'd just like to know the air speed you've used. I believe you are correct in assuming there has been too much air drying. A rheostat would solve the problem. Would it be possible for you to give us a really, really, close-up view of the texture (sliced)?
Also, this far into the project, you should have a bit more white mold. The salami should be entirely covered by now.
Hey Uwanna, I'm not being critical... I'm trying to help figure out why it has dried prematurely. If it is indeed at 30% loss of original weight, you could safely taste it at this point. Do you plan to run a pH test on the salami?

Please stay in touch. Let us know what is happening.

Best Wishes,

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:56
by ssorllih
After this project is done I am going to stuff several casing sizes from 40 mm up to 120mm and track drying rates. Weight versus time. I will wait until I can get some very inexpensive meat but I think that this is data we need.
I wonder if I could do it with wet sawdust?

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 14:35
by uwanna61
Uwanna, please refer to the SIXTH post on the following topic:
I guess I was wondering if maybe you noticed anything out of the ordinary from the pictures I posted on the sixth post.
As for the white mold, after the 72 hr fermentation step, I dipped the project A into a mold 600 solution, which I mixed per instructions, the mold was slow growing.
A rheostat would solve the problem.
For the rheostat, I have a solid state controller on the fan, which slows the fan down to a crawl. I will admit I did have the speed up a little, but not enough to launch a sail boat :grin:
Hey Uwanna, I'm not being critical
I know you`re not being critical. Not to worry, I`m not put off by this :wink:

And I did test the PH level, it is at 5.3
Here are a few pictures.

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 22:02
by ssorllih
My links are about that size and as of last night 16 days into the chamber they are down 24 %.

This is one of the reasons that I want to graph drying rate versus diameter for several sizes. I think that a cotton cloth tube sewn and the seam turned insde. Sawdust mixed with water and stuffed tightly into the casings, weighed and hung to dry and weighed each day until they no longer lose weight. As long as they all hang in the same area with the same air flow and conditions then drying times should be strictly a function of diameter.
If anyone sees a flaw in this idea please share your thoughts with me on the open forum.

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 23:26
by Chuckwagon
Uwanna ol` pard,
Your photo clears up a question or two. If you look carefully around the inner edge (just beneath the casing), you`ll see a "ring" of slightly darker colored meat. This is case hardening and is caused by accelerated evaporation (out of equilibrium with the diffusion).

How about reviewing the bottom post (15th post) on page 8 of this topic (Project A)
Here`s a link: ... &start=105

In this case, it is just beginning. Eventually it would become a gray-colored ring with hardened meat just beneath it and having a "mushy" meat near the center. So, yes I would agree with you that there has been too much air circulation. If you leave the "drying" stage and go to the "storage" specifications, I believe it should continue to dry just a bit and be a good, edible, product in just a bit more time. Can you bring it down to 55° F. and lower the humidity to about 75%?

Don`t toss it Uwanna, it`s not "gone". It`s just slightly case-hardened.

Best Wishes,

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 04:57
by partycook
Fellow sausage makers,
Well I have just finished making projects "S" & "P" and have placed them in my fermenter unit. Needless to say my tests and the actual results differ. I am using a converted freezer
which I originally had intended to use for high temperature fermentation as it does not have
cooling capabilities. I am using a computer fan with a variable voltage supply for controlling
my air flow. I am also using a cold air humidifier for regulating my humidity. I will be using ice packs and frozen water bottles to control my temperature. After adding so much product to the unit the temperature went way down. I imagine it will take a few hours before things


Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 05:11
by Chuckwagon
Good job Partycook! Your efforts will pay off big time. I'm glad you read about the difference using a "cold" air humidifier. Have some patience and you will have some gold on your hands in another month or two!

Best Wishes,

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 15:13
by ssorllih
I was pinching the top end of the links today and the skinny part near the string is hard dry but the rest is uniformly firm. I think that they are drying rather quickly but my RH is up and the temperature is inthe upper fifties. It has only been 18 days.

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 15:40
by ssorllih
For all intent and purposes I have the same problem as Uwanna 61. But it isn't from excess air flow my fan is very small and doesn't blow on the links. I am just gonna mist with distilled water twice each day.


The taste is proper for salami but it still has a raw meat mouth feel so I guess that is called mushy. It is distinctly softer in the middle than at the edges.

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 18:40
by partycook
Hi Chuckagon
Is it better to apply the mold 600 at the beginning of fermentation or after the 72 hour fermentation period? I have seen it stated both ways.
When we wake up starter cultures is there a proper amount of water to use as most of the recipes seem to be for 10 lbs. ?


Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 04:05
by Chuckwagon
Uwanna wrote:
To be on the safe side, maybe eat a slice with a shot of whisky.
Hmmm.... Just right off hand, I`d say several of us ought to join Uwanna and test "a lot" of his sausage slices, each slice with proper lubricant eh? This testing may take several days! By the way Uwanna, the fat definition in your sausage is remarkable. Very well done.

Partycook wrote:
Is it better to apply the mold 600 at the beginning of fermentation or after the 72 hour fermentation period? I have seen it stated both ways.
I put it on the minute is it hung up. I`ve seen others wait until the fermentation has finished, but there are reasons to have mold developing during fermentation. The sooner the better, in my opinion. Stan Marianski has written that it just isn`t that critical, as long as it is applied at some point.
Partycook also wrote:
When we wake up starter cultures is there a proper amount of water to use as most of the recipes seem to be for 10 lbs.?
When mixing Bactoferm Mold-600 , add 3 grams of the M-600 to a cup of 68°F. warm, distilled (chlorine free) water. Allow the mixture to stand 12 hours. Following the 12 hour waiting period (called the "lag phase"), add the mixture to 1 liter of distilled (chlorine free) water. Spray using a misting sprayer or dip the sausages in and out of the solution.

Whenever mixing other starter cultures, follow the instructions on each packet. Use only the amount prescribed in each recipe, then freeze the remaining culture. Usually, the recipe will specify a small amount of water to be added during grinding. Mix the culture with the water for good distribution.

Starter cultures containing other types of bacteria provide additional benefits as well. Color fixing and flavor forming cultures are presented containing the "slow-pokes" staphylococcus and micrococcus (aka-kocuria). Both tolerate increased salt levels very well, although they grow slowly. As we add lactobacillus or pediococcus to increase acidity, we must use caution, as pH below 5.5 may be achieved in merely half a day - allowing the "slow pokes" (staphylococcus and kocuria), no time to develop.

Why do we even use Mold-600? These surface-covering cultures are other types of starter cultures containing penicillium nalgiovense, added to inhibit the development of unwelcome molds, yeasts, and bacteria. Bio-protective cultures are those containing the added benefit of antimicrobial bacteriocins, decimating undesirable bacteria.

Here are a few observations to realize while you`re trying to make sense of all this new information. It hasn`t been all that long ago that man had no idea whatsoever, just what was responsible for making the changes in your Allysandra even happen.

 Sugar is not normally added to this type of sausage because the more sugar that is metabolized by added lactobacillus or pediococcus, the higher the acidity in the meat, often giving sausage too much "tang" or sour taste. High-quality European salamis - such as your Allysandra - have a mild taste, as they contain no added sugar.
 The speed of fermentation is directly attributed to the temperature inside the fermentation chamber. Up to a point, the higher the temperature, the faster the fermentation.
 The degree of acidity in a sausage depends upon the amount (and type) of sugar it contains.
 Fermentation ceases when there is no longer "free water" or more sugar available to the lactobacilli or pediococci in a sausage, or the temperature falls below 50°F. (10°C.). All bacteria require some amount of "free water".
 The curing chamber must contain some type of small fan producing slow-moving air to inhibit the growth of slime on the surface of sausages. However, too much air speed will dry the surface too quickly, not allowing the proper amount of moisture to leave the interior of each sausage.
 Lactobacillus and pediococcus (lactic acid bacteria) are used independently of one another as each function best at contrasting temperatures for maximum growth.

I have very much enjoyed helping you fellars understand more about the sausage-making process and feel like we have already accomplished quite a bit together. I can hardly wait until you cut off that first thin slice of flavored gold. What I would give to see your faces light up! Until then, stay healthy and cool this summer.

Best Wishes,

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 13:49
by ssorllih
My sausages are developing scabs on the pin holes made to deflate air pockets in the sausage. They are waxy and without taste. they displace the white mold and are on average about a half inch wide and slightly longer.

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 22:22
by uwanna61
My sausages are developing scabs on the pin holes made to deflate air pockets in the sausage
Yeah, for some reason I could not bring myself to prick holes in my fermented sausage. I was concerned that something would grow or the mold would surround the meat inside the casing or something like that. Not sure if I should have, but at the last minute opted not to put pin holes in the salami.