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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 03:23
by cajuneric
Thanks Bob!!! That's what I've been missing/ I've never let it go for 10 minutes for fear of overmixing. So glad to know that my product is about to get even better!! :mrgreen:

Good advice on the fat!! I'll be making more salami next week. Will 100% try that.

I'm tryig to find where I read about the starter culture. I think that I combined Evan's instruction with some other information that I joted down.

I will edit the video to clarify some of the processes :grin:

Thanks for the awesome advice!!


Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:41
by Bob K
I add the spices and culture just prior to grinding and most folks add them just after. CR Hansen says to add directly to the bowl chopper. Adding spices in advance can let unwanted bacteria to grow(they are now getting rehydrated) and you want your good bacteria in the culture to start working ASAP after activating. Refrigerator temps don't allow it to multiply rapidly.

If you want larger pieces of fat in a salami cut by hand, the pieces will stay separated. Chr Hansen recommends adding the fat later in the mixing process to avoid the meat being coated with fat, but without using a chopper or having a large mixer with the augers turning in opposite directions, its difficult to achieve a good mix with home equipment. If you freeze the fat overnight, and add to the meat just prior to grinding you will have well defined pieces, especially if you mix right away. :mrgreen:

Bactoferm Meat Manual ... 141009.pdf

You can mix longer with the mixer as the meat block stays much colder that mixin by hand.

Also I did see a manufactures video on grinders that said not to grind ice, I don't recall the reason why.

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 13:38
by Bob K
Devo wrote:I have had my Hanna for over 5 years now I think. It has worked perfectly without any problems.
Is that still with the original probe?

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 17:08
by cajuneric
See what happens when left unattended. I tend to get wacky. Thanks for setting me straight on some technique. I just finished editing the video. Ill re-upload as soo as I can. This way there's no confusing info out there...


Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 15:56
by cajuneric
OK. Here is a reposting of my Video, slightly edited for better understanding

The original one has been removed..

Let me know what you think

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 23:50
by cajuneric
OK... I whipped out my slicer and cut some 42% loss sausages. These have been vacuumed sealed and stored in the fridge for 10 days. WOW what an incredible difference. I can't wait for the muscles to be ready.

What's weird is that at 30% weight loss I though the first attempt was a total failure. At 40% it was redeemable with better salt and spice flavor. At 42% it was delicious but after vac sealing and refrigeration it became something radically different. A lot of beginners luck on my side. Now that I have some better techniques locked in I think that the next batch will be even netter!!!

No store bought salami has ever tasted this good. There's a neat funkiness that is hard to describe. Like really good cheese.


Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 01:01
by Butterbean
The cheesyness is neat isn't it? They seem to evolve. I often nick a few bites along the way long before they are finished just to experience the flavor of the various aromas.

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 03:37
by redzed
Hi Eric. I missed the first version of your video but just finished watching the new version. I must say it's very impressive and I like your presentation style and enthusiasm. Your technique is generally spot on and your workmanship is top notch.

But there is one piece of incorrect advice in there and some incorrect terminology. The bacteria starter culture can be added in dry form to the batter or hydrated in water for around 15-30 minutes before use, and 30 minutes should be the maximum. Otherwise you risk having unwanted activity or fermentation taking place before it is mixed into the meat. Commercial starter cultures contain significant amounts of glucose that serve as carriers for the bacteria, so if you soak the starter too long, it will start to ferment the available sugars.

As to the incorrect terminology, Bactoferm 600 does not contain bacteria but a mould starter which is a type of fungus. And just a note, unlike bacteria starter cultures, mould starters should be soaked for two hours before application.

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 03:43
by cajuneric
Yes and yes. There's a certain je ne sai quai aspect that's quite pleasurable. I like this.

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 03:54
by cajuneric
Thank you redzed. I'm so new at all the words and science, that I get a little jumbled up some times. Thanks to Bob's advice on some technique I was able to clean up the footage. I want to video document all my projects so that others can see and hopefully help me become better.

In the last 3 years i've received the best instruction over last past few weeks simply by joining this forum. I am super grateful for this awesome resource.

Thanks for the help and I'll be sure to correct that piece of info...


Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 04:21
by cajuneric

I was looking where I got that initial info on rehydrating the starter for an hour (although I have been know to just wing it) my notes pointed to a thread on this site that asked about when to add starter culture (microbiology of meats). CW offered some advice on rehydrating to accommodate for "lag time". Check it out. Have you changed the way you rehydrate? This thread was from 5 years ago. Not sure if that matters much... I only want to have an awesome product with a minimum risk factor. Point me in the right direction captain!!!


Homemade Sausage Making
Recipes for Tasty Homemade Sausages

Microbiology of meat and products - when to add meat cultures
ursula - Mon May 06, 2013 18:00
Post subject: when to add meat cultures
Hi all,
I've searched the site high and low, but can't find the answer to my question, which is: I've been researching fermented sausages for a few days, but I'm getting conflicting information about when to add the starter cultures. Some recipes say to add them with the salt, cures and spices, others to add the cultures first, then everything else before stuffing, yet others the spices, cure and salt first, then the culture.
Is this important or are they all ways to the same goal?
I'm off to make my first teewurst, inspired by Rudy, and will follow the recipe he posted.
Warm regards Ursula

redzed - Mon May 06, 2013 19:34
Because the starter culture is always dissolved in a bit of distilled water (I usually also add a pinch of dextrose to it, an let it stand for a couple a of hours), I add it during the final mix, often with other liquid. So if you are adding the spices after the last grind and then stuffing and immediately fermenting, then you can add the culture at the same time. But if you are seasoning and then refrigerating the farce for a period of time, wait until you stuff.

Chuckwagon - Mon Jul 15, 2013 23:47
This "wake-up" period (when the bacteria thaw and become active), is also part of what is called the "lag phase". To bolster the beneficial bacteria, a pinch of dextrose is always a good idea. It`s best to allow it to develop a little before coming in contact with salt. A couple of hours is usually an ideal lag phase.

Best Wishes,

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 06:31
by redzed
Good point Eric. It's been a while and I think we all learned a lot more since then. And the thing is that the more you learn about this craft you realize how little you know. I read about being cautious regarding the length of time you keep the bacteria in the water in an article in Science Direct, but did not make any notes and will have to search for it. It appears that the primary reason that we mix the culture with water and then add to the batter is to expedite its distribution. No "lag phase" is necessary. Here are a couple of exerpts by Gerhard Feiner from his professional book Salami - Practical Science and Processing Technology

Freeze-dried cultures can be mixed for around 15-30 minutes in cold water before being
introduced into the salami mass to make them faster acting but this is not essential.
Premixing with water makes supports an even introduction into the sausage
mass as the amount of starter cultures used per batch of salami, without water, is
rather small. If premixed with water, deminerialized water should not be used as
cells would die by bursting in this type of water. The bacteria can, as said earlier,
be premixed with water for around 15-30 minutes before use, rather than for a
period of hours, as some degree of unwanted activity or fermentation would
take place during this period of time. Types of sugar, such as glucose, are predominantly
the carriers used in commercial starter cultures, and so if the culture
was soaked for too long, it would start to ferment the sugars present.
Around 1010-1012 of bacteria are added per 100 kg of salami and these 1012
bacteria only weigh around 1 g on their own. Therefore, carriers are used as they
make starter cultures easier to handle.

Starter cultures are introduced into the sausage mass at the beginning of
the cutting or mixing process and they must be evenly distributed. Uneven
distribution results in nonuniform acidification and therefore faulty products.

Freeze-dried or frozen starter cultures should be stored at -18 to -25°C
until use and should not be premixed with other additives such as sugars, GDL,
ascorbate, spices, and salt before use. If premixed with other additives 1 or
2 days before being added to the sausage mass, some moisture is always present
and as soon as the starter cultures have access to humidity, temperature, and
some food (such as sugars), fermentation would begin and faulty salami would
be the result. The acid produced by a starter culture premixed with other additives,
even if the premix were stored in a chiller, would be sufficient to react
with nitrite and the salami would be discolored as a result. The acid produced
within the premix would subsequently be missing inside the salami and insufficient
acidification will take place leading to microbiological spoilage of the
product and a risk of food poisoning. These vital points explain why complete
blends or premixes of additives containing starter cultures for the production of
salami do not exist.

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:10
by cajuneric
You are so right about that!!

That's an awesome article. Wow. I didn't realize the effects of mixing the starter with spices long before placing in the chamber.. Good to know that!

Thank you for clarifying and sharing that info..