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dry, tough beef sausage

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 00:22
by polka
Hello Folks

I'm new to sausage making, and while waiting for a grinder, I decided to use ground beef / mince from the grocery store.

To 5 pounds hamburger, which was 73 % meat, 27 % fat, I used 1 tablespoon AmesPhos.

Now I noticed that the burger when removed from the wrapper seemed almost like it was already mixed to that "ready to stuff" look and feel.

Using a product like this, how does one not over-mix the meat? When simmered in hot water, I pulled them when reached 158-163 f.

The texture was a bit firm and chewy with "broth" between it and the collagen casing. I assumed that the AmesPhos would help hold that water in the meat, making jucier. I don't think it did. Wrong product? Over mixed? something else?

I bet I won't have this problem when I get to grind my own meat / farce.

Is my thinking correct, or far off base?

Thanks for your consideration.


Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 00:38
by Bob K

Fill us in on what you are trying to make and what recipe you used. :?:

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 14:54
by redzed
Normally beef contains higher amounts of myosin than in pork , that "glue that is extracted when we add salt and mix the ground meat. Beef also has a high water holding capacity and will absorb added water easily. Adding phosphates to sausage of the type you describe is not standard practice and not necessary. But when when you buy "hamburger" you never know what is really in it. You don't know the actual cuts used, freshness and the possibility of added water and preservatives.

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 22:41
by polka
In answer to BobK, I'm not sure which forum I found this, but was named "Rudy's All Beef Franks"

5 # ground beef
1 1/2 C. NFDryMilk
5 tsp salt
2 Tbsp Paprika
1 Tbsp AmesPhos
1 Tbsp Garlic
1 tsp cure #1
2 tsp onion powder
2 tsp pepper
1 tsp mustard powder
1 1/2 tsp coriander powder
3/4 tsp ground celery seed
1 tsp nutmeg
1 1/2 cup water or beer

I'm almost sure it is not the recipe's fault. I think it is the fact that I bought hamburger at the grocery store. Easy to over mix. It was not crumbly, but pasty like it was all ready for the stuffer. But I did think that the AmesPhos would have held more water in the meat mixture instead of it sitting in the casing with the meat.

What I really need is someone to tell me if I am barking up the wrong tree--are my conclusions right , or wrong?

Thanks for your time and trouble to consider, and answer.
Thanks to RedZed for his reply and remarks.

Rex Ulmer
aka Polka

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 23:17
by Bob K
That is one of our members Idakrauts Recipe. Having made it several times, it is probably the fault of your process.

Since you could not grind through a fine 1/8 plate did you emulsify the mince?

My guess is that it was either the poaching stage or they got too warm when emulsifying.
polka wrote:When simmered in hot water, I pulled them when reached 158-163 f.
Recipe stated not over 180° water bath and a finish temp of 152°. Those temps are important to be successful. You exceeded both.

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 04:11
by polka

Do you think temperature is the only culprit? My mince may have gotten above 45, also.

Going to have to be more careful.


Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:02
by Bob K
polka wrote:Do you think temperature is the only culprit?
Yes. From what you described you broke or melted the fat when poaching, which will result in a tough or sawdust-grainy texture.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 01:07
by martin
1 TBs phosphate for 5 lb ist a hardcor , its too much and nfd milk , this recapture is crazy.
Max dosage phosphate is 1tea spoon for every 5 lb of meat ( phosphate must be a mix in bleander with 1cup cold water , 1 ts phosphate and 1 cup water for 5 lb ) but for home made sausage 1 tsp phosphate for 10 lb meat is absolutely enough.
If you use phospate don't need nfd milk or soy concentrate.
Try first for juicy product use soy concentrate or nfd milk 20 gram for 1 kg meat , in comercial sausages they use 10 to 30 gram so mybe start 10 g plus 100 mil water for 1 kilo

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 13:14
by Bob K
Martin FYI the maximum amount of phosphates that may be used is .5% . In 5 lbs mince that would be 11.5 grams or around 1 Tbsp, you may of course choose to use less or not at all.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 14:23
by martin
5% that was push not long ago by big corporations and lobbyist who don't care about people's health,but only about the money,commercial sausage it's water fat and skins that they have to use lots phosphate,before the max was 3% but most butchers use 1%.
Did you try use 1tbs ? I once for fatty sausage (for grill) use 1 tsp for5 lb and sausage was not good.So I read other forums and many butchers for good home made sausage use 1/4 to max1 tsp for 5 lb depends how fat is in sausage,afcourse the best is not use any binders,,but some times when you don't have the best cuts of meat,and like juicy products little binders can help.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 14:55
by Bob K
That's 1/2 of 1% or .5% not 5%. And yes I use that amount in several emulsified sausage recipes but never in regular sausage.

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 20:47
by martin
Sorry Bob
I messed up something.
I know before in Poland,before Poland was in EU, max dosage phosphate was 1,5 gram per 1 kilo
Now in the EU max is 5 gram per kilo so is exactly like you write,and same like US so looks like 1Tbs per 5lb.So for old norm( polish) is max 1 tsp for 5 lb.
But like l said I tried 1 tsp and don't like,sausage on the grill was like rubber,was cracked but don't loose any moist,I like when sausage on the grill loose little fat but still stayed juicy,and like fill some chunks in the my mouth.