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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 20:36
by ssorllih
In this case it doesn't say but in the second recipe it suggests that in this case they are boiled: ... ge-swedish
another one : ... to-sausage

I ground raw potatoes one time and crushing them releases the starch and then when I cooked them without rinsing them the starch thickened and glued everything together.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 20:40
by ExhaustedSpark
Was that a bad thing. :grin: Thank you for the input.

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 02:42
by Chuckwagon
Uhhhh boys, :wink: The type of starch used in sausage making is refined extract from potatoes. They are peeled then crushed and the extract is dried into a fine powder that does not contain protein. (Potato flour does.) Interestingly, potato starch does not contain fat or cholesterol either, although a hundred grams of the stuff contains 83 grams of carbohydrate. It is a terrific binder and improves moisture retention. The starch is not cooked but made into a slurry. Only when it is heated will it absorbs large amounts of water.

Best Wishes,

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 06:00
by Chuckwagon
Hi Andrew J., how have you been? Hey, that`s a great question. The answer depends almost entirely upon your local environmental conditions such as relative humidity and temperature. When a meat product finally reaches the point where it is less than <.85 Aw (less than .85 [water activity] measurement) or sustains a pH drop less than <5.3 (acidity), then it is safe to consume (according to the USDA). From that "safety point" forward, it becomes a race against time to sell the thing (or consume it), before it becomes so dry it is no longer palatable.

Andrew, the difference in humidity between Durham and Salt Lake City is about as wide as the spectrum will ever become. In shops in my area, they simply cannot be out in the open air for very long. Our air is so dry, that the bushes follow the dogs around! And it dries sausages and jerky so quickly, if one looks away for a moment, one will miss the bloom! Kidding aside, there is a lot to be said about living near water when you run a charcuterie business. On the other hand, excessive moisture may also allow unwanted molds to form. The relative humidity in drier areas, places the emphasis on selling the product as quickly as possible following curing. Certainly most of it cannot be displayed in the open air and must remain in a humidity-controlled area.

Also, don`t forget about neon lights wreaking havoc on your sausages. Using corn syrup solids significantly reduces the bleaching problems that fluorescent lighting produces. Corn syrup solids used in a recipe also tend to extend the cured color for a longer period of time. It even supports the flavor-producing staphylococcus carnosus, staphylococcus xylosus, and micrococcaceae spp. (Kocuria) bacteria in the fermentation process in semi-dry and dry-cured products.

Andrew, there is just not a magical pat answer for your question. My best advice would be to sell it as quickly as possible after reaching the curing point - while it is still moist and tasty, yet dry enough to be safe. Start a new "overlapping" batch so you`ll not run low on the product.

Best Wishes,

Oredered Another Caddy

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 16:07
by nepas
This caddy was special order of 17mm. My other 3 orders have been 19 and 20mm of stuffing at 4900 ft per caddy. This caddy is about 2411 give or take some.

As long as you vac bag and keep in the fridge the casings will be good for 2 years. How long will it take for me to use them all? Depends on how many batches of sticks i do.



Ready to separate and vac bag.



Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 16:45
by Keymaster
nepas wrote:How long will it take for me to use them all?
Depends on how many get shipped off to friends :mrgreen:

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 17:02
by ssorllih
I presume that they are substantially cheaper by the case?

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 19:19
by nepas
ssorllih wrote:I presume that they are substantially cheaper by the case?
For me they are.

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 19:00
by Dutch
Wow-thems a lotta casings Rick. Where did you order from and do they sell in lots smaller than case size?

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 20:29
by nepas
Dutch wrote:Wow-thems a lotta casings Rick. Where did you order from and do they sell in lots smaller than case size?
I get from Dupey in Clive Iowa.

I asked if they would do half caddys and was told no.

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 22:46
by vagreys
Wow. They have single-stage and progressive meat patty presses... :mrgreen:

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 23:35
by partycook
Boy did I screw up.We had finished stuffing a bunch of beer sticks and I wanted to cover them over night so the top layer didn't dry out .Well blaizen sadle blankets them thar beer sticks had eaten holes right though the aluminum foil that I had covered them with,naturally I tossed out any of the meat that had come in contact with the foil.What a chemical reaction. I usually use freezer wrap but I ran out. Could it have been that I used to much cayenne pepper? 3 TBS. per 25 lbs. heh-heh. Are there any chemists out there. Better tell the guys to put in a extra supply of malt for the taste test.


Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 00:06
by Chuckwagon
Hi John, you ol' partycook!

Aluminum is what's called an "active metal" - a material that readily sheds electrons. Because of this, when aluminum is in contact with an acidic medium and a non-aluminum metal in which something is stored, it will steadily lose electrons and change into a form that is dissolvable by the acid in food.

Some acids react with some metals but not all acids react with all metals. However, assuming there is a reaction, the acid will dissolve the metal to produce the metal salt of that acid. Yup pard, and it will produce hydrogen gas. (For example: 2H+ + M = 2M+ + H2)
However, there are some exceptions. An example would be if you mix nitric acid with copper... you will only get clouds of brown nitrogen dioxide gas.

If you want to singe the hair from your eyebrows and forearms, mix aluminum foil with hydrochloric acid and blow up a balloon with it. Get some fool with a long arm to put a match to it and you`ll see a nice big fireball. Here`s the "Saddlebum Science" behind it all:
Aluminum plus hydrochloric acid reacts to produce aluminum chloride and hydrogen gas. In a formula, it would look like this:
Al + HCl => AlCl3 + H2^
But there is only one problem with this formula. It doesn't balance because there is not the same number of atoms of the three elements on each side of the equation. You need to have three HCl's on the left to provide the 3 Cl's in the AlCl3 on the right:
Al + 3HCl => AlCl3 + 1.5H2^

But there is still a problem because there is no such thing as one and a half molecules of hydrogen gas. So the actual formula is:
2Al + 6HCl => 2AlCl3 + 3H2^

So ol` pard, the idea is to keep the foil out of your food, especially if that food contains high acidity. However, you shouldn`t fear because I doubt you`ll blow off your eyebrows!

Best Wishes,

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 23:52
by partycook
Hey big guy thanks for the info. I don't know if I mentioned that at our last sausage get-together we cranked out 110 lbs. My loss in smoking was about 32 per cent,give or take a couple percent. My net weight was just over 72 lbs. I imagine that I could cut the loss if I raised my finished temperatures a bit faster, thus losing less moisture. As in all groups I have one person who believes that a cost of $3.04 per pound is way too high.


Store bought pepperoni and Salami?

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 14:20
by Blackriver
Is pepperoni and Salami you buy in the store cooked then dried? Do they use a culture like a F-LC starter culture, ferment for for 24 hours, then cook to a desired internal temp, then tranfer the sausages to a drying chamber to get the desired weight loss?