"Disclaimer Container" - Where Did My Post Go?

Talk about anything here as long as it is not against the rules.
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Shuswap
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Post by Shuswap » Fri Oct 31, 2014 19:56

Thanks Maxwell. We have an insatiable thirst for knowledge and eagerly await the english language videos.
Phil
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Post by rgauthier20420 » Fri Oct 31, 2014 19:56

I'm sure this post and opinion will be scalded by many on this forum, but let me just say that this sounds like playground squabbling. "I want to be the only one sitting at the top of the playset". In all truth, CW has been an irreplaceable aid to many of this forum, and I've come to understand from reading the many different posts about this subject that he was integral part of building the English side of the WD site.

However, the need to be a "Senior" moderator above all the rest so he can say his "chub" is the biggest is stupid and childish. I will continue to frequent here as usual and of course continue to use CW's recipes and read his advice on many subjects. However, the way it's described by Maxwell leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
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Post by redzed » Sat Nov 01, 2014 20:27

Maxell wrote:Dear friends,
For some time on this forum there have been expressions of dissent caused by a lack of understanding of some of the fundamental issues involved. I am the owner of the web portal wedlinydomowe.pl. which includes the Polish and English language forums. While we don't have seem to have any serious problems on the Polish forum, it is here that things have been fomenting. Perhaps I am the cause of all this, but after reading the posts, I don't think I'm the only one to bear the blame.

A forum needs to have a team of moderators, which is necessary to carry out continuous monitoring and maintain compliance with regulations. In addition, the moderators have the task of providing assistance to the many different forum members. From the start, we had a team of moderators on this forum, but what evolved was that my colleague Chuckwagon became the only active moderator. He performed his duties very well, and I am extremely grateful to him. However, with the recent production of the technological video series, there arose a need to appoint another moderator, familiar with the Polish language, who would be a link between me and your forum. We want to offer you the English version of these videos as soon as possible. My decision was to ask redzed, whom I have known for many years, to perform this function. Unfortunately, CW did not like this idea. By virtue of his seniority and status on the forum, CW requested that this be formalized and that he be designated in name and in function as the "Senior Moderator". I approved this and gave him my assurance that there was no intent in redzed's appointment as a moderator, to diminish CW's status on the forum, but to solely act a liaison between me and the forum. Still, this was not enough.

Ladies and gentlemen, as the owner of the website and the forum, I am responsible for maintaining a conflict free forum environment. Obviously, the final decisions in its operation are solely mine. My current plans are the distribution of the videos and the continuation of the improvement in the quality of the forum. These priorities will not change.

I also hope that CW will understand this and resume his work in directing a group of moderators on this forum. Once again, I strongly emphasize that I am very pleased with the work my friend Chuckwagon has been doing, and appointing redzed or any other additional moderator, is absolutely not an attempt to undermine his work or status. This post is an attestation of this.

I extend warm greetings, and look forward to our continued and uninterrupted cooperation.

Maxell
I just hope that this drama finally comes to an end. Image
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Post by sawhorseray » Sat Nov 01, 2014 23:47

Heck Red, I thought all the drama was over with a little while back. Life goes on. RAY
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Post by Chris Aldren » Mon Dec 01, 2014 08:51

Have nothing to do... :roll:
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Post by ursula » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:54

:smile: Make some sausage, Chris!!!
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Post by redzed » Fri Feb 06, 2015 20:20

Hey guys and gals! Can you review the list of suppliers at the top of the thread and see whether we are missing anyone or if you had bad experiences with any, or they no longer exist, then we can add and delete as necessary.

Time to do an update!
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Post by redzed » Sat Jul 04, 2015 00:49

Heads up on a great 4th of July sale at the Craft Butchers Pantry. Most items are 30% off, and they have a great selection of specialty items not available anywhere else.

http://www.butcherspantry.com/
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Bob K
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Post by Bob K » Sat Sep 26, 2015 18:58

For those who order stuff from the Sausage Maker- Free shipping this weekend on orders over 25$....not to hard to do
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Post by Tom » Sun Jan 03, 2016 03:05

Butterbean I'm not quite sure of your agenda, you seem to have a propensity for distorting the facts. I'm not interested in your views on Darwinism I simply asked a question about water activity in meats. You take portions of my comments and make up a question to your liking, which is a lie. I didn't join this forum to play games. I may be reading you wrong but unlikely so if you want to play these games play with others. I'm looking for honest personal input from experienced members. I'm not looking for cut and paste answers from other sites, books etc. I have all the reference books I need. Apologizes if this offends anyone. TOM
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Post by Butterbean » Sun Jan 03, 2016 03:30

Tom, I have no agenda other than to share and learn. I simply asked the question why you thought you couldn't cure meat safely. I gave legitimate reasons why I thought you could so it seems only fair that you share your feelings why you feel we can't.
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Post by Uxbal313 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 05:43

redzed wrote: I advise investing in a meter, or at the very least, using test strips. Lowering the pH is an important hurdle and can be tricky, so we need to know what the heck is going on. Even in Italy they check the pH, and look for that drop even though they don't use starter cultures. We simply don't have that flora in our environment, so we inoculate. I totally believe in using cultures not only for safety reasons but for flavour and aroma that will be similar to that found in Europe. And if you use bioprotective cultures such as B-LC 007 and F-LC you raise a hurdle even higher.
From my observation, Fermentation and pH lowering is just inevitable when the meat is salted appropriately (i salt 2.5-3%) even without store bought cultures and even at cold temperatures (10-15c). I experimented with no starter culture and no "fermentation" in warm and humid area before. I made chinese style sweet sausages that i just hanged in my humid fridge after stuffing it. I tried one sausage after few days in the fridge and it soured. That just means the resident bacteria in the meat soured/fermented the sausages. The other sausages, i dried for over 25 days, it tasted great and i am still alive. Now i just use kefir mixed with left over thermo and meso bacteria from cheese making which are way cheaper and pretty much unlimited as long you feed them. They give great flavor in the sausages i make and imo better than store bought sausages.

Tom,
People have been curing meats without any gizmos and still are.
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Tue Jan 05, 2016 08:33

Uxbal313 wrote:
redzed wrote: I advise investing in a meter, or at the very least, using test strips. Lowering the pH is an important hurdle and can be tricky, so we need to know what the heck is going on. Even in Italy they check the pH, and look for that drop even though they don't use starter cultures. We simply don't have that flora in our environment, so we inoculate. I totally believe in using cultures not only for safety reasons but for flavour and aroma that will be similar to that found in Europe. And if you use bioprotective cultures such as B-LC 007 and F-LC you raise a hurdle even higher.
From my observation, Fermentation and pH lowering is just inevitable when the meat is salted appropriately (i salt 2.5-3%) even without store bought cultures and even at cold temperatures (10-15c). I experimented with no starter culture and no "fermentation" in warm and humid area before. I made chinese style sweet sausages that i just hanged in my humid fridge after stuffing it. I tried one sausage after few days in the fridge and it soured. That just means the resident bacteria in the meat soured/fermented the sausages. The other sausages, i dried for over 25 days, it tasted great and i am still alive. Now i just use kefir mixed with left over thermo and meso bacteria from cheese making which are way cheaper and pretty much unlimited as long you feed them. They give great flavor in the sausages i make and imo better than store bought sausages.

Tom,
People have been curing meats without any gizmos and still are.
Uxbal313, your statements a are totally incorrect. I suggest you do a bit of homework before posting such fallacious meanderings. To begin with, salt has nothing to do with fermentation. It is just that lactic bacteria are tolerant of it, some even at 15%. The sour taste that developed in your sausage was most probably caused by spoilage bacteria, and yes it might have "fermented". But you have to understand that Lactic acid bacteria (LAB) constitute a heterogeneous group of over 100 species. Most in fact contribute to spoilage and only a few will act to preserve the meat. And while kefir might contain LAB which will grow in meat and serve as bioprotective agents, you don't know what the cell count is and they are only one of many other bacteria that are present. Kefir also contains yeasts which tend to give off unpleasant flavours.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I hope that you consume your sausages yourself and are not sharing them with anyone.
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Post by Uxbal313 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 09:18

redzed wrote: Uxbal313, your statements a are totally incorrect. I suggest you do a bit of homework before posting such fallacious meanderings. To begin with, salt has nothing to do with fermentation. It is just that lactic bacteria are tolerant of it, some even at 15%. The sour taste that developed in your sausage was most probably caused by spoilage bacteria, and yes it might have "fermented". But you have to understand that Lactic acid bacteria (LAB) constitute a heterogeneous group of over 100 species. Most in fact contribute to spoilage and only a few will act to preserve the meat. And while kefir might contain LAB which will grow in meat and serve as bioprotective agents, you don't know what the cell count is and they are only one of many other bacteria that are present. Kefir also contains yeasts which tend to give off unpleasant flavours.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I hope that you consume your sausages yourself and are not sharing them with anyone.
Salt has a lot do with fermentation. Salt inhibits pathogenic/spoilage organisms. Good bacteria has high salt tolerance so its very likely good LAB were on the sausages i made. I know the difference between spoiled and fermented. Lets see you make dry cured sausages without salt and see how it goes. I use kefir "mixed" with meso and thermo bacteria mother culture that i made. Both are multi strains. The yeast does not give unpleasant flavors nor it makes air pockets. Have you tried it before? Beer, Wine, Miso and Soy Sauce contains yeast, they taste nice.

I also make a lot of kimchi and other fermented food and drinks. I don't bother counting the bacteria, species, pH testing and all that stuff. If it works, it works. I don't get too deep or over analyze stuff. I see it as art first, science second. People to this day still make fermented foods the old fashion way because it still works and produce great results. Great example are fine farmstead raw milk french cheeses. Too bad they are dying out because of "bacteriological correctness".

I usually use my sausages as pizza toppings and for pasta. So its perfectly safe because its cooked. We also eat it raw. I use cure# 2 btw to be in the safe side.

I don't want to rain on your parade but there are way more dangerous foods here in the Philippines.

Double, triple dipping or more allowed :D
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li0mx ... o1_500.jpg

Cheaply made mystery meat sausages made in a very dirty, hot and humid environment and then left to hang. I've seen first hand how these are made, gross to put it mildly. I eat these once in a while, cooked until almost burned, taste pretty good.
http://www.bradleyfarless.com/wp-conten ... C05290.jpg
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Post by redzed » Tue Jan 05, 2016 17:20

Salt in itself is not needed for fermentation which is what you stated in your previous post. And I understand that people have been been fermenting foods for millenia without understanding the science behind it. Now we have a whole body if scientific evidence that helps us better understand the fermentation process, so why not take advantage of that? People at one time lived in windy caves and had a life expectancy of 25. We have moved a long way from that time. And here we making sausages, not kimchi, beer, miso, wine, soy sauce. Those are topics for another forum.
Last edited by redzed on Thu Jan 07, 2016 02:11, edited 2 times in total.
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