Online Workshop: Project B (August 2012)

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IdaKraut
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Kabanosy review

Post by IdaKraut » Fri Sep 21, 2012 20:46

I posted a picture of my Kabanosy sticks, made according to Chuckwagon's recipe except I doubled the amount of caraway. While good, and reminding me somewhat of a non-tangy version of Landjaegers, I doubt if I would make them again. I love making Landjaegers and adding LAB starter culture is about the only difference between Kabanosy and LJ's. BTW, my Kabanosy lost 44% weight in 4 days and I believe that they were at the proper dehydration level.
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Kabanosy

Post by IdaKraut » Fri Sep 21, 2012 20:56

Here's my Kabanosy sticks according to the Chuckwagon recipe with double the caraway seeds. It's OK, but not spicy or tangy and I will not make it again. I smoked these with the Amazing Pellet smoker using half pecan and half apple pellets for 7 hours. I then dried them at 60°F and 50 to 60% humidity for 4 days to achieve a 44% weight reduction.

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Post by two_MN_kids » Fri Sep 21, 2012 21:23

But they look great, Rudy. I didn't smoke mine as long, and stopped the drying at 40% loss. Mine didn't get as dark and so nice looking as yours!

Fine work.

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Post by Chuckwagon » Sat Sep 22, 2012 00:37

Rudy, you wrote:
It's OK, but not spicy or tangy
That's a good lookin' batch of kabanosy pal. I always add a little more cracked black pepper to mine to fire it up a bit. Congrats, it looks like you did very well with the recipe.

Kabanosy wasn't designed to be spicy. I put it in this part of our Project to introduce folks to lamb casings and semi-dry curing. For those who could not afford them, they had the option of using collagen casings. It was an exercise in the second type of sausage with curing and cooking while showing folks the value of partial dehydration.

I also had to remember that children and women don't usually prefer hot, spicy, sausage snack sticks. Kabanosy was a perfect choice for this particular project. Shucks pard, I'm dissappointed that you didn't care for them. Worldwide, they are a very popular snack.

As we move along in the project, we'll eventually get to the brink of dried and fermented sausages. At that point, I'll introduce several types of more tangy snacks. Project B will be ended and we'll offer another project in dried, fermented sausage, to the same group of folks participating in this exercise. We'll eventually get there and I hope you'll be part of it. It will probably be called "Project H" (Holsteiner) and will show folks how to make a dried, fermented, German, white and black pepper sausage. It will be much like Project A was last year. We'll build curing chambers etc., and study the effects of lactic acid, salt, and dehydration. It should be lots of fun for folks who have worked their way through the basics of this current project.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably needs more time on the grill! :D
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Post by IdaKraut » Sat Sep 22, 2012 01:18

Jim.

Thank you for your kind words.
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Post by snagman » Sat Sep 22, 2012 01:56

ssorllih wrote:There is another aspect to the ways of smoking meat. I apply cold smoke for a few hours and then finish the meat or sausage in my oven at the lowest possible settings, about 170°F.
This method is mentioned in the smoking section of Home Production of Quality meats and sausages.
Ross,
Csabai is never cooked, it is a cold smoked, dried sausage. If it is taken to a finishing temperature it is a smoked cooked sausage, and has a completely different taste and texture.
Regards,
Gus
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Post by Chuckwagon » Sat Sep 22, 2012 05:53

Hi friends.
I will be offline for a couple of days while I move to a new place nearby. Ross Hill will kindly watch over the flock and answer many of your questions. I trust ol' ssorllih. He's a great guy and knows a heck of a lot about sausage making. So, make some casabai and we'll let that ol' cagey snagman answer your questions about Hungarian sausage. I'll check in about mid-week. Thanks Ross and Gus.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon
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Post by NorthFork » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:44

Snagman-thank you for your help and for your recipe.

I have a couple of questions:

#1- When you season the meat (before grinding), do you include the cubed fat or reserve the unseasoned(frozen) fat until the grinding stage?

#2- What would be the preferred temperature range for resting and also curing this product in the refrigerator? I have 3 that have temps of 33-34°F, 35-36°F and 38-39°F, I presume the upper range would be OK but wanted to get your opinion.

Thanks again
Pat
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Csabai

Post by snagman » Sun Sep 23, 2012 01:50

NorthFork wrote:Snagman-thank you for your help and for your recipe.

I have a couple of questions:

#1- When you season the meat (before grinding), do you include the cubed fat or reserve the unseasoned(frozen) fat until the grinding stage?

Hey Pat,
The fat grinds best when in a frozen state, so I don't include that at the seasoning stage, and, it is a desired appearance that the fat pieces are as white as possible.

#2- What would be the preferred temperature range for resting and also curing this product in the refrigerator? I have 3 that have temps of 33-34°F, 35-36°F and 38-39°F, I presume the upper range would be OK but wanted to get your opinion.

You are right, 38-39° F for drying. Would like to see photos of your csabai ! Regards, Gus

Thanks again
Pat
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Post by el Ducko » Wed Sep 26, 2012 15:25

ssorllih wrote:Sorry that answer is above my pay grade. :lol:
Hey, Ross! Now that you've gotten promoted (presumably to a higher pay grade)(2 times zero is still zero, huh?) :lol: , maybe...

Naah! Next topic: what's the news on our Csabaii recipe? ...any helpful hints, folks? What's holding me up is the smoking requirement. I just bought a propane smoker, and am finding that I can't get the temperature low enough. ...any ideas?
---smoke with the door open?
---smaller burner?
---some sort of baffle arrangement?
---saw a hole in it and feed more air?
---forget about propane. Stick a hot plate inside to get the wood chips smoldering?
---spend another fifty bucks for that "Amazin" gadget?
---separate the smoke generator from the smoker cabinet with a long length of stove pipe or downspout pipe? (Build some sort of smoke generator to hook to it)

As always, thanks in advance for the help. :mrgreen:
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Post by nuynai » Wed Sep 26, 2012 16:42

Do you have a chimney on your smoker. On mine, that's how I control the removal of moisture before smoking and than temperature. A lot of my recipes call for, having the chimney vent, 1/2, 1/4 or totally open. Trust your thermometer. I wouldn't use propane for various reasons. Hot plate would be the way to go, at the least. Think with the 2, you'd get what you're looking for.
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Post by el Ducko » Wed Sep 26, 2012 16:57

nuynai wrote:Do you have a chimney on your smoker. On mine, that's how I control the removal of moisture before smoking and than temperature. A lot of my recipes call for, having the chimney vent, 1/2, 1/4 or totally open. Trust your thermometer. I wouldn't use propane for various reasons. Hot plate would be the way to go, at the least. Think with the 2, you'd get what you're looking for.
No chimney, but I do have a damper in the back that I can open or close. Wide open versus 1/4 open, there was little difference when smoking a chicken. ...still way too hot.

I think you're right on the hot plate. I'm now trying a hot plate with the chip tray from my new smoker, in my old vertical Brinkmann. After half an hour, I can't conclude much other than that it will probably stay quite a bit cooler. Smoke evolution is pretty light, but then, it really isn't up to a steady temperature yet.

Thanks for the advice. I'll post again, later. Hot plate for now. I don't plan to abandon the new smoker, but want to see if I can hold a lower steady temperature on the big Brinkmann. Any other suggestions, folks?

Sorry that this is buried in "Project B." We have that cold smoke requirement, though, for csabaii. :mrgreen:
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Post by nuynai » Wed Sep 26, 2012 17:02

How about input of air flow. If you aren't getting any in, that may be the problem about temp. control.
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Post by el Ducko » Wed Sep 26, 2012 17:16

nuynai wrote:How about input of air flow. If you aren't getting any in, that may be the problem about temp. control.
On the new rig, there's no way to throttle input air. ...just gas. (Good thing, too- - might go BANG!) Overall air flow is controlled by the damper which, as I think I mentioned, has been run at 100% open and 25% open. There was little to no effect on cabinet temperature, but then, there was a beer can chicken going at the time so plenty of liquid was available to evaporate and hold down the temperature to 220 or so.

But the real need is to go just above ambient temperature. With the gas control at lowest setting, the thing still operates at 220 or so. Looks like I need less heat input, which is why your suggestion to go to a hot plate is a good one.
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Post by nuynai » Wed Sep 26, 2012 17:29

With highs here in WNY at 65, I'm sure temp. is a lot less of a problem than in Texas. Hang in there and good luck.
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