Yogourt as starter culture in sausage making

Igor Duńczyk
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Thu Feb 13, 2014 16:50

alhunter63 wrote:If you were to open that sucker real quick & grab a little & get it right back in the freezer before it has a chance to thaw it shouldn't matter.
Yeah - in theory that might look as the perfect way to do it but be aware that splitting up a DEEP frozen sucker may cause the air (and humidity) of the much hotter ambience room to get SUCKED INTO that little´sucker!!!

To play safe I´d therefore recommend that the sucker-sachet is opened in a COOL ambience and only after being given some minutes on the table in order to throw the "deep" of the "-freeze". Safest would be to perform the process in a cooling or (even better) freeze storage room - as long as you make sure that nobody closes the lock from outside :twisted:
Wishing you a Good Day!
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Post by alhunter63 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 15:04

Hi guys, I just thought that I would share this info. that I received from R&D @ the sausage maker where I buy most my stuff.

Hi Angelo,

If you shake the packet and you hear the sound of rustling, as if there is loose sand in the packet. Then the mold/bacteria is still viable. It dies off once it consumes the sugar content that is mixed in with it, when this happens it turns brown and clumps together. So if there is no 'sand-like' sound coming from the packet then I would discard it, unfortunately.

Sincerely,
Miroslaw "Mac" Stanuszek
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The SausageMaker, Inc.
716.824.5814 ext.512
mstan@sausagemaker.com
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Post by redzed » Sat Feb 15, 2014 18:35

DelNorte wrote:This is definitely a most interesting subject for me! I'm going to be keeping an eye on this thread to see what kind of conclusions you guys come to.

Now kick me for being the newbie to sausage making, but I do have a question about the yogurt used - does it need to be the plain stuff without sugar?

It's been some time since I've seen the sugarless kind here in Uruguay. Maybe I could contact the local Conaprole company and see if they still make it.

Also, could one use a homemade version of yogurt?
DelNorte those are good questions, but I am afraid I can't answer them. I have been searching for info on using yoghurt cultures in fermenting sausages for a long time and have found very little. The PhD thesis I quoted in my earlier post was the first work with any credibity that I have come across. The particular probiotic culture lactobacillus rhamnosus used in the study is present in a particular brand of plain yoghurt sold here. I checked a couple of other brands and they did not contain this particular one. Lactobacillus rhamnosus is also available in capsule form in a probiotic supplement, and I would like to learn whether that also can also be activated in meat.

I will be starting a test batch in a couple of days and will file a report.
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Post by HamnCheese » Sat Feb 15, 2014 20:15

Here's an interesting article.....I used "probiotic fermented sausage" as search terms.

http://www.intechopen.com/books/probiot ... t-products
It isn't immediately obvious, but there are scroll bars in this article that allow you to read the entire chapter 5.

This one is an abstract: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16076509#

This one is Czech: http://mnet.mendelu.cz/mendelnet08agro/ ... erkova.pdf
(Scroll through to page six to the bibliography for additional articles/resources)

Hope this helps!

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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Sun Feb 16, 2014 03:20

Great find Lynn - thanks!

I see that both article No.1 and No.3 contains contributions by my great colleague from my Chr.Hansen days; Mrs. Lone Andersen (quote) "...demonstrated the ability of mix of a traditional starter culture, Bactoferm T-SPX (Chr Hansen), and the potential probiotic cultures of L. casei LC-01 and Bifidobacterium lactis Bb-12 to ferment meat product."

I actually didn´t want to enter this debate about yogurth as starter culture, because I think the topic demands some deeper (scientific) insight and perhaps its about time for me to tap Lone on the shoulder and try to persuade her to make an insider statement for you folks.

The fact is (as Lone Andersen has proven in several tests) that some pro-biotic strains will survive well in a fermented sausage and contribute positively, while others won´t because they succumb to the pH drop and/or salt concentration.

Another factor is the total cell count: Usually you add (a.e.) 2x10 in 11 (sorry guys - can´t type the elevated 11 in this editing program) to be sure that the added "good" bacteria will be numerous enough to dominate over the indigenous "bad" bacteria. Which actually may happen if the cell count of the added culture is too small, and the meat is just a bit too contaminated with that unseen kribble-krabble.

Now: How will you be able to know the total cell count in the the splash of yogurt that you consider adding ? :roll:

Well, I´m just asking - and don´t expect me to come up with an answer :mrgreen:
Wishing you a Good Day!
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Post by redzed » Sun Feb 16, 2014 06:47

Igor I was hoping that you would pipe in here and help me out. As you know, most of the studies using probiotics in the production of dry cured sausage focused on making a "healthy" sausage that could be marketed to the granola and Birkenstock crowd. My interest is to see whether it's possible to actually use the probiotics as starters to do the job and lower the pH of the meat in a reasonable period of time. And you are right, I really don't have a clue what the cell count in a table spoon of yoghurt is. I will add as much as I can without compromising the consistency of the meat mass. Will feed it dextrose and corn syrup solids and ferment at 20° at least for the first 24 hours. The yoghurt that I will be using contains lactobacillus acidophilus, bifidobacterium lactis, l. rhamnosus and l. reuteri. I will be starting the fermentation phase in two days.

With another test sample I will also attempt to use probiotics obtained from capsules that contain active cells, namely:
l. casei - 5.88 billion cfu+: l. rhamnosus - 6.6 billion cfu+; l.acidophilus 4.2 billion cfu+; l. plantarum 4.2 billion cfu+; l. helveticus 1.2 billion cfu+

The amounts are what each capsule contains, so Igor, you can advise how many capsules I might mix into a 1kg. mat mass? I am totally illiterate in this stuff, having an education in the social sciences and spending over 30 years chained to a desk!

And Lynn, thanks for those links. That Brazilian study is excellent!
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Sun Feb 16, 2014 15:14

Hi Cris,
I have passed on your question but I can mention strains that are likely to survive: Lactobacillus casei LC-01, Lb. paracasei, and Lb. rhamnosus, whereas L.acidophilus won´t survive the fermentation. And within Lactobacillus casei, Lb. paracasei, and Lb. rhamnosus there are of course many variations some of which have different proprieties.
And I think it that your idea of adding the (un)encapsulated strains sounds as a much more unhazardous method than addition of liquid jogurth.
One thing is that you raise water activity which may result in a meaning longer drying out phase -but OK -that´s probably to manegable.
Also, I would only go for a low fat or non-fat jogurth for the tests. I don´t like the idea of the milk-fat smearing around meat fibre, cause once the water of the jogurth is out the proportion of milk fat will be that much higher.
Wishing you a Good Day!
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Post by DelNorte » Wed Feb 19, 2014 18:47

I've been following this thread, completely out of my element with all the technical talk, but still finding it very interesting.

I came across an article that I thought I'd share. I'm not sure of my reaction to it yet. :shock:Pooperoni
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Post by redzed » Wed Feb 19, 2014 22:45

Well, I am excited! Yesterday I made aproximately 4.5kg of Salami Finnocciona (as per Marianski's yellow book.) Starting pH was 5.8. I separated the prepared meat into 3 parts and inoculated them with the following:

Test Batch 1
The contents, weighing 6.1g of six capsules of a probiotic supplement, cotaining l. casei, l. rhamnosus, l.acidophilus, l. plantarum, l. helveticus.

Test Batch 2
4 tablespoons of Balkan style organic 1% fat yogourt, containing lactobacillus d. bulgaricus, l.acidophilus, bifidobacterium sp., l. p. casei, l. rhamnosus, p.f. shermani.
2 tablespoons of Balkan style natural 0% fat yogourt, containing l.acudophilus, bifidobacterium, and l. paracasei.

Test batch 3
6g TSP-X

No.1 and No. 2 are being fermented at a temp of 27°C (80F) humidity 95%, while No. 3 is being held at 20°C (68F). 90% humidity. I was advised by our friend Bagno, master technologist on the Polish WD site to ferment the yogourt batches at the higher temps.

And why I am excited is that after 24 hours the pH drop in the test samples was the following: No.1 - 4.65; No.2 - 4.91; No.3 - 5.22.

From the literature I studied and with Igor's help I learned that bifidobacterium, l. casei, l. rhamnosus and l. plantarum all can survive the high salt content and nitrites and have been used successfully in sausage fermentation. I actually was sceptical that you can do this successfully in a home environment with probiotics purchased at the supermarket. So far this experiment has shown that you can successfully use the appropriate yogourt culture to lower the pH to a safe level. Batch No1. was lowered with almost the same results that one might expect when using LHP starter!

I am planning to continue the fermentation for a few more hours and will transfer Nos. 1 and 2 into the curing chamber. For the high temp fermentation I am using my Pro-100 smoker which is insulated and essentially airtight and capable of maintaining the necessary temp for the humidity I placed a large water pan on the burner, so its constantly producing steam.

To be continued...
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Post by ssorllih » Thu Feb 20, 2014 04:27

Red, Very fine work! I have speculated that someone, somewhere in the distant past spilled sauerkraut into a batch of summer sausage and got good results in the fermentation.
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Post by redzed » Thu Feb 20, 2014 06:40

Thanks Ross, but it won't be over until I cut into it and seen how the two probiotic samples taste compared with the TSP-X batch. And I don't know how the drying will go and whether it will dry evenly and most important of all, is it safe from all the nasty bacteria?

In my post earlier today I made an error. The Batch inoculated with yogourt is in fact Test Batch 2, and the one with the capsules is Test Batch 1.

Tonight after 30 hours fermenting I pulled No. 1 and No. 2 out of the fermentation chamber as it looks like they both went through a very fast pH drop and not much movement in the past six hours. Yogourt has pH of 4.6, capsules 4.95 and TSP-X 5.12. The salami was sprayed with mould and transferred into the drying chamber.

In retrospect I probably should have fermented at a lower temp and a slower ferment. A fast pH drop will probably result in a sour taste. I should also add here that I added 2g of dextrose and 2g of corn syrup solids to 1kg of meat. I am itching to make another batch but don't want to spend all that time washing and cleaning after a small batch of sausage.

Image
pH reading after 30hrs fermentation with probiotic capsules.

Image
pH reading after 30hrs fermentation with yogourt

Image
pH reading after 30hrs fermentation with TSP-X

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Probiotic salami, fermented and firm, sprayed with mould starter ready for curing chamber
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Post by alhunter63 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 18:41

What do you do with the meat when your done testing, just discard it??
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Post by crustyo44 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 21:21

Personally I would eat it without any worries, no doubt cure has been used and knowing that Red is a stickler for hygiene and proper procedures, these test salamis are safer to eat than the commercial made ones.
My 2 cents worth.
What would the Forum be without your experiments Red?
Cheers Mate,
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Post by redzed » Fri Feb 21, 2014 04:12

alhunter63 wrote:What do you do with the meat when your done testing, just discard it??
I tasted the yogourt sample after fermentation and it was not bad! I keep the samples in the chamber with the salami and check it now and then. After a month it develops a mould and is a bit dry on top but does not smell rancid or any different than the cased sausage. In the end, ( sorry to disappoint Crusty), I do throw it out.
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Post by redzed » Thu Feb 27, 2014 08:28

So far, so good. It's been 6 days and the 3 study batches of salami finocciona are progressing well. Today the pH readings were as follows and the reading in parentheses is from 6 days ago:
Batch 1: 4.60 (4.95)
Batch 2: 4.63 (4.62)
Batch 3: 4.95 (5.12)

Image
Nice mould cover after 6 days on the test batches of T-SPX salami

I decided to experiment further with the same yogourt as used in Batch 2. This time I made a spicy duck salami (will name it Birch Hills Salami if it completes the curing cycle and tastes OK). I was a bit uncomfortable with the fast pH drop in Batches 1 and 2, particularly the possibility of too much tang or excessive sour taste. So this time I fermented the sausages at a lower temp., in the range of 22-24°C. With a starting pH of 5.76, after 18 hrs it was 5.45 and 24 hours 5.5. It was beginning to look like the the cutures in the added yogourt were having some difficulty so I bumped up the temp to 28-30°C and after 36 hours the pH dropped to 5.06. I took the sausages out of the fermentation chamber after 54 hours when the pH read 4.93. In the future this salami will be referred to as Test Batch 4. So from the two yogourt test batches it appears that a higher temp fermentation is necessary.

Image
Test batch 4, using yogourt as starter culture, after 54hrs fermentation

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Test Batch 4 (spicy goose salami), sprayed with mould starter and ready for the curing/drying phase.
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