Umai Salumi vs. Chamber Salumi: Which tastes better?

crustyo44
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Post by crustyo44 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 05:31

Jason, check out Robert Goodrick's recipes. He makes charcuterie for a living and uses only cures, salt and spices. No cultures used anywhere.
Good Luck my friend.
Good Luck,
Jan.

Added info:
Robert Goodrick posts here as BriCan.
His facebook page is here : https://www.facebook.com/Goodricks-Meat ... 255863586/
Last edited by crustyo44 on Fri Apr 15, 2016 13:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by harleykids » Wed Mar 30, 2016 05:55

Bob,

That's a good point, I never thought about the culture...I have only used -007
Do the other available cultures have that much of a distinct different taste?

Is the F-LC less "moldy" flavor? And I took the genoa salami to around 4.9 I believe, and it has the least moldy flavor of any I have made so far, although I still think it is much too much moldy flavor. It just overwhelms the meat and spices, leaving the same moldy type aftertaste in my mouth.

Is F-LC the least aggressive testing culture? And fermenting down farther to 4.6 or 4.7 should decrease the moldy taste?

I am assuming I can calculate the final PH (and get fairly close) by calculating my total sugar (especially the dextrose) by meat weight?
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Post by Bob K » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:34

Jason-
You will have to experiment to get the taste that you are looking for. A fast fermenting culture like F-LC or LHP works quickly and will halt the flavor forming bacteria with a fast drop to a ph below 4.8. ( :cry: ) :wink:
You can calculate the sugar amount and use a higher fermenting temp for a fast ph drop

You can read about the different cultures here: http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... e/cultures
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Post by harleykids » Wed Mar 30, 2016 15:40

Ok, got it.

So you think my moldy flavor (prized by many, I know!) is coming from INSIDE the salumi?
And not the M600 on the outside?

Interesting....

I will get some different cultures and make a batch of something and use the different cultures in that batch. Maybe then I can tell which culture I like...hopefully there will be one that I like!

thanks
Jason
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Post by Bob K » Wed Mar 30, 2016 15:50

Since you are experimenting.....Potassium Sorbate, which you can use to eliminate the mold growth.

http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php ... cts_id=744
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Post by harleykids » Thu Mar 31, 2016 04:45

Bob,

I read some articles on that...but most said it was marginal at best for inhibiting mold.
Pretty much didn't work is what the articles said.

I think your suggestion on trying a different culture is a good test to try, and not spraying heavily with M600 may also help, although my chamber is like a perfect storm for beautiful M600 growth apparently!

Or I may have to make a chamber that uses real filtered air, not just a converted freezer with a fan, in order to keep the mold away.

Or use Umai bags and my fridge, and just use my chamber for whole muscle cuts.

I will try to get a few experiments done in the next month, as soon as I decide which culture to order and try! As slow as the salumi take to dry, it may be a LONG experiment phase! :-)

I still love weighing and moving those salumi around....kind of like caring for delicious children! If I could get a salumi without the mold taste, I would be in heaven!

Thanks!
Jason
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redzed
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Post by redzed » Thu Mar 31, 2016 07:25

harleykids wrote:Chris, those look great!

Question here, just thinking out loud, so I may be way off.

Say my goal was to make salumi that had no mold flavor, and no mold growth on the casing. I wanted my salumi to look like the one in your pic above, clear, pristine, with great color showing thru. No mold.

Would the Umai bags be my best shot? I am assuming you still use dextrose and a starter culture, and ferment, as normal? Just no natural casing, no M600, and no drying chamber needed (fridge instead)

Or can you skip the fermentation process? I am assuming no, since you still need a safe PH drop below 5.2 for safety, even if you aren't going for a "tang" taste with the starter culture.

And in regards to flavor, wouldnt the flavor be more "pure meats and spices", due to the lack of the external/internal flavoring of the mold?

I would think that if you wanted the quality of the meat and spices to come thru as much as possible, you would want the least amount of adulterant flavors. By this, I mean in the Umai bag you have meat, cure/salt, spices. That's it.

In a regular cased salumi you have the above, plus the starter culture, the casing itself, and the M600. All contribute to the flavor, giving it the "old world" flavor profile of a traditional salumi.

Just curious.
Jason, if you want to dry cure sausages without mould, you would need a separate curing chamber from the one one with the mould covered salami. You would also need to sterilize the chamber first and wipe off any mould that might appear. Lowering the temp to 50 or < will also help. Lowering the humidity will also help to keep the mould off, but then a lak of mould and lower RH can result in case hardening. Cold smoking and potassium sorbate will also work.

As far as having less of the funky musty, cheezy flavour, using a culture with Lactobacilli only and without the cocci bacteria should, at least theoretically help. Enzymatic activity, or proteolysis induced by mould and cocci bacteria are largely responsible for the flavour.

Your other option is to make a thinner sausage in a hog casing and not use any starter cultures. Marianski describes the process, albeit briefly in the yellow book.

And why not try the umai bags. Make the same sausage and do half in your chamber and half in the fridge, then you can be the judge. And as to your question about fermenting in the umai product, I ferment it the same way as the chamber-destined salami.

I have never tried solid muscles in Umai bags, only salami and related products.
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Post by redzed » Thu Apr 14, 2016 08:11

I made some Sausisson d'Arles, 50% pork and 50% beef five weeks ago. Made one chub in the umai salami casing. I took it out today and it lost just over 50% weight. A little chewy, but sliced thinly it's not too bad. In a few days I will pull the ones in the chamber and do a taste comparison.

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Post by harleykids » Fri Apr 15, 2016 13:28

Looks great Chris! I am interested in the flavor comparison, please keep us posted on your results!
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