Need advice making dry salami

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montreal_1982
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Need advice making dry salami

Post by montreal_1982 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:51

Hi guys! its my first time on this forum, i'm hoping someone can give me some advice on my hanging salamis.

The problem is clear in the picture, there are many air pockets. Just to clarify I used a sewing needle to pop the air pockets when I was stuffing the casings, and there were no air bubbles when they were first hung. They only started appearing after fermentation prob around 5-6 days.


Im wondering if this is normal, perhaps the meat is shrinking but the casing isnt ? I do not want the meat to rot what should I do ?

Cheers!!
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Post by Devo » Mon Jan 19, 2015 13:25

First off welcome to the forum.

Now one question is what type of casings did you use?
If not using natural casings than you should have used Fibrous Protein-Lined Casings.
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Post by montreal_1982 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 13:30

Devo wrote:First off welcome to the forum.

Now one question is what type of casings did you use?
If not using natural casings than you should have used Fibrous Protein-Lined Casings.

Doh forgot to mention I used the fiberous casings.

Thanks for the welcome!
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Post by Devo » Mon Jan 19, 2015 14:38

I really don't have a spot on answer for you there bud. If there excessive moisture content in your curing chamber, it may cause the casing to wrinkle and appear to "pull away" which yours is for sure doing. The other thing I am wondering is about your protein lined casings. They might be dried out because of old stock or poor packaging. Maybe just a cheap manufacturer?

Now the other things we need to consider is what culture did you use and what was the Ph after fermentation?

There is also something called hetero-fermentative contamination, I won't go into that as I don't know enough to comment on it but it can produce a response that just can`t be explained and is entirely unpredictable.

Or the meat is simply separating from the artificial casing and will be just fine.

I'm sure others will be along to give more insight so stick around and we will all learn from others
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Post by montreal_1982 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 14:55

Devo wrote:I really don't have a spot on answer for you there bud. If there excessive moisture content in your curing chamber, it may cause the casing to wrinkle and appear to "pull away" which yours is for sure doing. The other thing I am wondering is about your protein lined casings. They might be dried out because of old stock or poor packaging. Maybe just a cheap manufacturer?

Now the other things we need to consider is what culture did you use and what was the Ph after fermentation?

There is also something called hetero-fermentative contamination, I won't go into that as I don't know enough to comment on it but it can produce a response that just can`t be explained and is entirely unpredictable.

Or the meat is simply separating from the artificial casing and will be just fine.

I'm sure others will be along to give more insight so stick around and we will all learn from others

ok thanks for the input. My temperatures have been goin up n down like crazy, that might have something to do with it. Ive ranged from 14degrees upto 18-19 and my humidity goes newhere from 50-65%.

Its my first time using these clear casings so maybe you're right and they r cheap or somethin, cuz the brown ones I used from the same company worked fine and shriveled up tight when the sausage shrank.

Hopefully someone has seen this happen before and can help me out
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Post by Bob K » Mon Jan 19, 2015 15:33

It really seems as if they are drying too fast. Are they hanging in a chamber or an area that you can control the temp and humidity? The humidity should be up in the 80% range.

You could try tying with butcher's twine or use elastic netting to help with the air pockets.
After tying or netting mist with some water to dampen the casing.

Like Devo stated protein lined casing work best if you are using fibrous casings as they adhere better to the meat.

Not sure if the air pockets on the exterior will cause any problems other than case hardening.
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Post by montreal_1982 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 15:53

Bob K wrote:It really seems as if they are drying too fast. Are they hanging in a chamber or an area that you can control the temp and humidity? The humidity should be up in the 80% range.

You could try tying with butcher's twine or use elastic netting to help with the air pockets.
After tying or netting mist with some water to dampen the casing.

Like Devo stated protein lined casing work best if you are using fibrous casings as they adhere better to the meat.

Not sure if the air pockets on the exterior will cause any problems other than case hardening.
They are hanging in a small room in my house where I leave the window open and have 2 humidifiers running. Its winter and usually minus 20-30 outside but weve been having really warm weather around 0 deg celsius so I've left the window open wider to keep it cooler. This makes it less humid (around 50%) so its very possible that they are drying too fast.

I didnt know about the protein lined casing I will have to search for them.

Thanks alot for the input!

p.s I also have two 1 inch salamis hanging (they are in the brown fibrous casings) and they seem to be adhering to the meat and shrinking normally. I will try wrapping them in cheese cloth and misting them tho.

Ty Again :)
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Post by montreal_1982 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 16:12

So i just put my big humidifier directly under the salami hopefully this will keep em at max humidity :???:
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Post by Bob K » Mon Jan 19, 2015 16:37

The Protein lined casings are available from the Sausage Maker, and they do ship to CAN. Not sure of any CAN sources. They can also be used on regular smoked sausage no problems.

What are you making and what recipe are you following?

P.S. Welcome to the forum!
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Post by montreal_1982 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 19:17

Bob K wrote:The Protein lined casings are available from the Sausage Maker, and they do ship to CAN. Not sure of any CAN sources. They can also be used on regular smoked sausage no problems.

What are you making and what recipe are you following?

P.S. Welcome to the forum!
Sweet i'll check em out!

I like making my own recipes, right now i got these hanging:

3lb salami with 10 grated cloves of garlic
3lb salami with 4 tbsp of red chili flakes
1lb salami with 2 tsp of rosemary
1lb salami with 2 tsp of fennel seeds
1lb salami with 2 tsp of cracked pepper
1lb salami pretty standard recipe

also got some pepperoni sticks or slim jims drying :mrgreen:
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Post by redzed » Mon Jan 19, 2015 23:20

Hi Montreal and welcome to the forum. As Devo and Bob have already surmised, the problem is most likely the casing. The term "fibrous" really tells us no more than that the casing is made from a combination of cellulose and natural fibres. There are dozens of varieties of fibrous casings out there and it is important to determine whether they are suitable for the type of sausage we are making.

I still prefer using beef middles for my dried cured sausages, but have also used the Naturin brand casing sold by Stuffer's Supply in Langley. They are excellent.
http://www.stuffers.com/category-s/2128.htm

Your conditions for drying/ripening the salami are far from ideal. Have you considered constructing a curing chamber where you can control the temp and humidity?
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Post by montreal_1982 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 01:40

redzed wrote:Hi Montreal and welcome to the forum. As Devo and Bob have already surmised, the problem is most likely the casing. The term "fibrous" really tells us no more than that the casing is made from a combination of cellulose and natural fibres. There are dozens of varieties of fibrous casings out there and it is important to determine whether they are suitable for the type of sausage we are making.

I still prefer using beef middles for my dried cured sausages, but have also used the Naturin brand casing sold by Stuffer's Supply in Langley. They are excellent.
http://www.stuffers.com/category-s/2128.htm

Your conditions for drying/ripening the salami are far from ideal. Have you considered constructing a curing chamber where you can control the temp and humidity?


Yea i've thought about a curing chamber but they are just way too small for what im making. Usually i have anywhere from 50-100 lbs of sausage hanging in my room. I find that if the humidity is over 60% then everything turns out ok. As far as the casings go, i'm using the clear fibrous casings with the deer emlem on it. They have the same logo as the ones from sausagemaking .com. I think i will try to find beef middles for my next batch.

Thanks alot !
Cheers
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Post by Igor Duńczyk » Sat Jan 24, 2015 01:57

Hi Montreal!

The kind of problem that you encounter could be a sign that the fermentation takes place at a high speed at the surface and the pH drop there makes the meat fibres contract too fast and sheds moisture in a faster pace than the casing allows for, resulting in the casing "loosing its grip" in spots and places.
To determine if that really is the explanation it would be interesting to see a cut-through of one of the bubble-drabbed salamis.
And of course if you can tell us which starter culture you have used and which amount of sugar(s) was employed...

Eagerly awaiting your answer! :roll:
Wishing you a Good Day!
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Post by Devo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 02:12

Those are Fibrous Deer Head Print Casings, meant for summer sausage and the like. Not for dry cure as they will not shrink to the meat as it looses moisture. He needs fibrous Protein-Lined Casings or else he will end up with wrinkled sausage. Most likely it will turn out OK with some case hardening. Buy natural casings and you will be happy you did.
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