Cold Smoked Pork + Schinkenspeck - Ligawa's recipe - StefanS

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redzed
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Post by redzed » Thu Dec 21, 2017 20:47

First of all let's get the terminology set here so that we all understand each other. Traditional schinkenspeck is made from a part of the ham, not the butt portion, not the picnic portion, not the loin portion. A cured and smoked neck portion of the butt is called a cottage ham or cottage roll. A cured and smoked picnic (bottom part of the shoulder or foreleg) is called a picnic ham. Schinkenspeck is cured, cold smoked and then matured for a period of time which may vary.

As to the recipe, I would not use Cure #2 with anything that is nor matured for at least a month. But if you want to try it after week or two there is probably no danger, most of the nitrate would have been converted to nitrite by then.

And there are umpteen ways to cure and smoke a pork loin. There is a Polish recipe for a loin that is cured, cold smoked and eaten right away, Polędwica łososiowa. Joe you should be able to read the recipe in Polish. https://www.wedlinydomowe.pl/wedzonki/p ... at-50-tych

A German version of a cured and cold smoked loin is known as Kasseler It is usually cut into chops and cooked.
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Post by jjnurk » Tue Jan 02, 2018 15:53

So after a couple weeks, sliced my loin and was recieved quite nicely. After 12 days of brining, I soaked it for 14 hrs in cold water but should have left it in there for a little bit longer, thinking closer to 18-20hrs. The saltiness was almost borderline too much. Quite tasty regardless.


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Post by redzed » Tue Jan 02, 2018 17:52

Looks very nice! Just drink more beer to calm the saltiness! Next time try dry curing it using the equilibrium method. It will be exactly at the level you like and you can't oversalt regardless how long the cure.

Keep your eyes open for a nice used commercial quality slicer.
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Post by jjnurk » Thu Jan 04, 2018 15:22

Concidering I've never done the equillibrium brine before, from what I've read, sounds pretty simple. The only thing that I'm trying to figure out is " add enough salt for your taste". I've seen anywhere from 1 - 2% as being the norm, settling at 1.75%. Would the following amounts be good for pork as well would it also work for poultry? Minimum brining time 24hrs for poultry and 48 for pork (depending on thickness)?

weight of meat gm 2270
weight of water gm 2000
total weight gm 4270
cure required gm 10.66
salt required @ 1.75% salinity 1.75% 64.73
sugar required 1% 42.7


PS. You don't like my 1980's T-fal meat slicer :lol: ?
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Post by StefanS » Thu Jan 04, 2018 18:56

Hey JJNURK. my question - why you want use a wet brine for meat with purpose to dry it.?
Here my schinkenspeck :
ImageImage
Equilibrium cure in vac pack for 20 days (my choice, can be cured 7-10 days)
22.5 g/kg sea salt, cure #1- 2.5 g/kg, black pepper 3g/kg. cold smoked 2x 6 hours with 48 hours rest between. Hanged in curing chamber until 25-30 % weight loss.

Pork loin - similar story, but more herbs like thyme, sage, rosemary added. 14 days EQ in vsc pack. Packed in beef bung and cold smoked total for 30 hours by 15 days.
ImageImage
will stays in curing chamber until... not decided yet
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Post by redzed » Sat Jan 06, 2018 19:24

jjnurk wrote:Concidering I've never done the equillibrium brine before, from what I've read, sounds pretty simple. The only thing that I'm trying to figure out is " add enough salt for your taste". I've seen anywhere from 1 - 2% as being the norm, settling at 1.75%. Would the following amounts be good for pork as well would it also work for poultry? Minimum brining time 24hrs for poultry and 48 for pork (depending on thickness)?

weight of meat gm 2270
weight of water gm 2000
total weight gm 4270
cure required gm 10.66
salt required @ 1.75% salinity 1.75% 64.73
sugar required 1% 42.7


PS. You don't like my 1980's T-fal meat slicer :lol: ?
Theoretically your numbers for an equilibrium cure for poultry look fine. However, the brining time would probably be inadequate, since it really has such a low salt content. I brine poultry using 100g salt per litre of water, 24-30 hours for chicken and 48hrs for turkey. Last time that I brined a 20lb turkey I brined it for 72 hours and it was not too salty. So if want to do a equilibrium brine you need a lot more time. I would venture to say at least a week for your chicken. Take a look at this calculator: http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesInd ... lator.html

Yeah, I saw your slicer after I posted the comment since it looked like a knife job. The 1980's T-Fal might be nostalgic, but you are not driving a 1985 Ford Escort are you? I have a Hobart 410 that is as old as I am and runs better than me. :lol:
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Post by Laftpig » Sat Jan 06, 2018 20:49

StefanS great looking meats. I`m also trying to figure out the salt concentrations. I try never to go over 3% even that`s a bit much depending on the meat.

Redzed great calculator. According to the brine time table a ham about 9 inches would take over 50 days to cure. Would you need any form of nitrates or nitrites in the brine for safety?
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Post by redzed » Sun Jan 07, 2018 02:39

Laftpig wrote:Redzed great calculator. According to the brine time table a ham about 9 inches would take over 50 days to cure. Would you need any form of nitrates or nitrites in the brine for safety?
Yes, you would need nitrite if you were smoking pork for safety and flavour. However, it's different for a chicken or turkey if you were cooking it and smoking at the same time. Safety would not be a concern if you starters off with 140 and brought the temp up to 200 or higher. But if you like that hammy flavour in chicken or turkey, you can add a small amount of #1 for the flavour. As to equilibrium wet curing or brining I have never done it and really don't see any benefit in leaving meat in a low salt solution for an extended period of time. I prefer gradient brining with a 8-10% salt solution. I'm currently brining a trimmed pork loin for back bacon. 9% salt, no pumping for 5 days.

I am, however, a fan of equilibrium dry curing.
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Post by jjnurk » Mon Jan 29, 2018 16:20

StefanS wrote:Equilibrium cure in vac pack for 20 days (my choice, can be cured 7-10 days)

22.5 g/kg sea salt, cure #1- 2.5 g/kg, black pepper 3g/kg. cold smoked 2x 6 hours with 48 hours rest between. Hanged in curing chamber until 25-30 % weight loss.
Hey Stefan, one quick question. After the equil cure, do I just give the meat a 15 min cold water rinse, air dry for a few hrs then smoke?
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Post by jjnurk » Mon Jan 29, 2018 23:03

Also, what benefit is there putting the loin in a beef bung vs a net?
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Post by StefanS » Tue Jan 30, 2018 02:28

jjnurk wrote:
StefanS wrote:Equilibrium cure in vac pack for 20 days (my choice, can be cured 7-10 days)

22.5 g/kg sea salt, cure #1- 2.5 g/kg, black pepper 3g/kg. cold smoked 2x 6 hours with 48 hours rest between. Hanged in curing chamber until 25-30 % weight loss.
Hey Stefan, one quick question. After the equil cure, do I just give the meat a 15 min cold water rinse, air dry for a few hrs then smoke?
Sorry for delay - i do not rinse after equilibrium curing in vac pouch, just couple hours of conditioning before smoking(air drying )
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Also, what benefit is there putting the loin in a beef bung vs a net?
IMO - slower rate of drying so more time for enzymatic reactions, better distribution of spices flavor. plus less smoke taste - soon will know better after opening that loin.
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Post by jjnurk » Wed Jan 31, 2018 15:47

Thx for the info!
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Post by Knifeman » Thu Feb 01, 2018 21:32

StefanS

That is nice looking meat you have there !
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Post by Knifeman » Thu Feb 01, 2018 21:42

Redzed

You are right on the money concerning the cuts used for Shickenspeck . We did however use the sirloin butt portion of the loin from sow sides for this cut also. If you can picture the whole aitch bone in the ham intact going right down into the loin, the meat removed from just under the loin portion of the long aitchbone was used . We cut our Kartenshenken (sp) from the sow bottom round with eye of the round attached and the shank portion removed
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Last edited by Knifeman on Thu Feb 01, 2018 21:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kijek » Thu Feb 01, 2018 21:45

Stafan
cold smoked total for 30 hours by 15 days.
Am I to understand in 15 days you cold smoke, maybe 2hr a day?
When cold smoking, once you start, you can stop and start again the next day?
There is no set timing in other words?

I have a pork loin curing in vac bag, ( equilierium method right? ) for close to a month now and getting to cold smoke it ( my first time cold smoking ).
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