Cold Smoked Pork + Schinkenspeck - Ligawa's recipe - StefanS

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jjnurk
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Post by jjnurk » Thu Feb 22, 2018 14:40

StefanS wrote: keep in mind that cold smoking it is drying with addition of smoke - humidity level in that process is very important.
So again, is there a rule of thumb for the humidity level? Length of time for cold smoking?
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Post by StefanS » Thu Feb 22, 2018 15:31

It should be in around 75-80% RH inside smoking chamber - because we do not having right equipment for measurements and applying steam - i personally have a aluminum pan filled with water under product inside chamber.
Length of cold smoking - a few things should be consider - personal preferences for taste, flavor, temperature during smoking, kind of wood or chips, pieces of meat "naked" or in casing, kind of meat, content of fat etc.... - and most important - experience. There are not any "thumb rules" -
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Post by Bob K » Thu Feb 22, 2018 16:04

Stefan, if JJnurk is making a loin can you give an idea of how much shrinkage or a range you may try for? Yea I know it can be difficult, when asked how long to dry salami usually say till it feels done :wink:
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Post by StefanS » Thu Feb 22, 2018 17:10

As today in morning I have put in EQ (vac pack) pieces of loin. One of them to be done like Schinkenspeck.
With weather as today in New England - temp. 39F (4*C) 60-70%RH, and piece of loin without any casing I will smoke it for 3X8 hours in 3 days period. (temp. in smoker 15-20*C). Resting in garage (temp. 10-12 *C). Then in curing chamber to weight loss of 20- 25%. (7-10 days). Or when it is done :lol:
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Post by Kijek » Thu Feb 22, 2018 23:28

I will put it to curing place for around 2 weeks.
Since it has already cured and been smoked, is putting to curing place really a fermenting place?

I just got my book today, The Art of Fermented Sausages and gonna start reading up on this stuff.
But just wanted ask, don't want to wait for answer in book.
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Post by StefanS » Fri Feb 23, 2018 00:26

Kijek wrote:
I will put it to curing place for around 2 weeks.
Since it has already cured and been smoked, is putting to curing place really a fermenting place?

I just got my book today, The Art of Fermented Sausages and gonna start reading up on this stuff.
But just wanted ask, don't want to wait for answer in book.
fermenting place or fermenting chamber - there you ferment usually salami (18-24*C and 85-95% RH)
Curing or resting chamber - place where you keep your meat during maturing process - (usually 12-15*C and 75-82% RH)
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Post by Kijek » Fri Feb 23, 2018 02:29

Thank you and you do so great work as well. I've been watching you.
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Post by redzed » Fri Feb 23, 2018 17:26

jjnurk wrote:Is there some rule of thumb regarding cold smoking? I've read tons of material and there doesn't seem to be any consistency. Some say for 12 hrs for 5 days with 8 hrs rest, others non-stop for a week, others 8hrs to 10 hrs a day, etc.
That is a good question, but I don't believe there is a definitive answer to it. When I cold smoke I always keep the temp under 18C and smoke with periods of rest in between. I know that others smoke continuously for long periods and assert that there is no difference. Cold smoking with breaks in between is more traditional and is the recommended way in older recipes. There are different theories as to why. One is that since cold smoking is not as efficient in penetrating the meat as is hot smoking, the resting period allows the smoke to diffuse and equalize in the meat. Another theory is that the meat will dry at a more gradual rate if it is allowed to rest in between. We had a discussion on this vey subject on the Polish forum, and there were no conclusions that weighed greater on either side.

And I believe we already touched on whether you can eat the loin immediately after the cold smoking, or having to wait after dry curing it for a period of time. That is a matter of personal preference. In Poland "polędwica łososiowa" is popular and is eaten carpaccio style. Products that are smoked and then matured, like speck, allow the enzymes to change the structure of the proteins and result in different flavours. As for me, I like both.
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Post by jjnurk » Fri Feb 23, 2018 21:30

Hey Chris, there was certainly a discussion about the drying time but that was more to reference the length of time for the nitrates (#2) to turn over. This time I used #1.
Thx everyone for clearing up the cold smoking time frame and what exactly the rest periods do.
In regards to the humidity level in the smoker, I didn't know that was necessary in this process. . I also use a pan with water but for hot smoking. Might have to hook up a small humidifier during the cold smoke.
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Post by Bob K » Sat Feb 24, 2018 16:12

redzed wrote:And I believe we already touched on whether you can eat the loin immediately after the cold smoking, or having to wait after dry curing it for a period of time. That is a matter of personal preference.

While I don't want to sound too much like whats his name.......

Folks should still be aware there are still the risks of Trichinosis, E Coli, Salmonella, ect. in an uncooked piece with a high aW.
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Post by StefanS » Sat Feb 24, 2018 17:43

Bob K wrote:
redzed wrote:And I believe we already touched on whether you can eat the loin immediately after the cold smoking, or having to wait after dry curing it for a period of time. That is a matter of personal preference.

While I don't want to sound too much like whats his name.......

Folks should still be aware there are still the risks of Trichinosis, E Coli, Salmonella, ect. in an uncooked piece with a high aW.
Partially I agree with BobK- there is some risk, and there is some risk to eat meat later after drying/rippening too (S. aureus - Aw-0,85). BUt - we stated it before - cold smoking it is some kind of drying too - so Aw after 20 hours of smoking with resting periods will lower Aw to level =/or below 0.95, additionally - whole muscle meats are almost sterile inside muscle (without cuts etc), plus outside surface is mostly protected by smoke components. So again - there is some risk but .....
our digestive system is prepared for raw meat too. :twisted:
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Post by Bob K » Sat Feb 24, 2018 18:35

Unfortunately we live in a time where common sense is rarer than Hen's teeth.
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