Problem with starter culture - BL-C 007

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redzed
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Post by redzed » Mon Feb 12, 2018 17:29

I was very excited when I purchased B-LC 007 for the first time. Craft Butchers Pantry touted it as a culture that "makes T-SPX obsolete due to all the additional beneficial strains that come with it." I have found 007 to be a fail proof culture combination when it comes to fermentation. It seems to require a minimal amount of sugar and is aggressive even at temps lower than 20C. After all, it is composed of a cocktail of three lactic bacteria, whereas T-SPX contains only one. And that's where I have a problem with it. In using 3g/kg of dextrose and fermenting at 20C, I have had a pH drop to 5.1-4.9 within 30hours. When we want a mild tasting Mediterranean style sausage, a fast pH drop is not desirable. Staphylococcus strains (xylosus and carnosus) are very sensitive to acidity, and at pH below 5.0 the nitrate reductase activity slows down considerably.

So what to do? First, we have to slow down fermentation by lowering the temps to 17C or even 16C. Knowing the starting pH of the meat and adjusting the sugar is very important. A starting pH of 5.9 will have a different result than a starting pH of 5.7. If the meat has a higher water content it will also affect the speed of the fermentation. And since the lactic acid bacteria grow only in muscle tissue, the amount of added sugar might have to be adjusted according to the fat in the sausage. And lastly we can use a combination of fast acting and slow acting sugars to extend the fermentation period.

So is it worthwhile to use B-LC 007 for that added hurdle of protection against listeria? Maybe, but if you want to have all the benefits from this starter, it is not an easy culture to work with.
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Bob K
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Post by Bob K » Mon Feb 12, 2018 17:56

redzed wrote: Craft Butchers Pantry touted it as a culture that "makes T-SPX obsolete due to all the additional beneficial strains that come with it."
And everyone believed it disregarding the manufactures intent of production of fermented sausages with fast acidifacation and a SHORT production time.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vflz67q60oapk ... 7.pdf?dl=0

If you want a culture designed for Listeria protection and manufactured for use making a traditional product use F-LC. Depending on sugar content and temperature it can also be used as a fast fermenting culture.
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Post by Kijek » Mon Feb 12, 2018 21:14

Very interesting thank you, I do believe I will try it next batch I make
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Post by jcflorida » Sat Mar 24, 2018 20:44

In a thread discussing pH meters:

http://www.wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopi ... c&start=16
Bob K wrote:Thats a great chart and info about fermenting with 007!!! Could you also post that info in the 007 string?
Here 'tis

This was done with my new toy, an Apera PH60S. I used relative lean pork pre-cured with 2.25% salt and 0.25% cure#2. After 48 hour cure, it was ground and 0.044% B-LC-007 hydrated in 1% distilled water added. Thoroughly mixed in Kitchenaid mixer. Then small samples prepared with various amounts of sugars, each also mixed with the Kitchenaid.

Please be aware that I am an utter amateur at this, so this information may be amusing, but it should be treated as suspect!!!!

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Post by cajuneric » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:27

Is the general target with BLC is between 5.3 and 5.1 right? And is the point is getting it there as slow as possible?

I know those are weird ways to ask a question... Great Charts!!
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Post by Bob K » Wed Apr 04, 2018 15:11

cajuneric wrote:Is the general target with BLC is between 5.3 and 5.1 right?
For a typical southern european sausage , Yes.

cajuneric wrote:And is the point is getting it there as slow as possible?
usually within 72 hours as the pH drop below 5.3 is also a safety hurdle against spoilage
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Post by Lonster » Fri Apr 06, 2018 14:42

Jcflorida, thanks for the charts. I've been reading a lot about cultures. My first batches that I made had that cheesy taste that I didn't like. Yesterday I took a trip down to a place here in Seattle called Salumi where they cure salamis. I've always liked the taste of their products. They suggested I us the b-lc-007. So I have some on order. Based on your charts, I assume that a good first start would be to ferment at 70 deg F 90% humidity and go for the standard 0.2% dextrose 0.3% sugar. Then target a 4.95-5 pH. Does this seem like a good place to start? I willl be making pepperoni, soppreseta and Spanish chorizo. Hope to use the same for all.

Oh yeh. First time was with t-spx

Any concerns or advise?

One more thing. I noticed none of the product at Salumi had mold. They said they purposely do not have mold. They keep their chambers clean and remove any mold that may start to grow with vinegar.

I like the flavor of the Salumi product so I will try to replicate with their advice and anything that you all can offer.

Thanks for all the great experience and wisdom
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Post by Kijek » Fri Apr 06, 2018 19:38

I'd love to learn how to make charts like the one JCfl did.
For those of youwho do know how, what is it made using EXCEL or is there a program or what?
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Post by jcflorida » Fri Apr 06, 2018 19:53

Lonster wrote: Based on your charts, I assume that a good first start would be to ferment . . .
As has been discussed many places in this forum, there's probably as many variables in this process that effect acidity, flavor, color, etc. as there are posters here. I'm very new to this, so I would not take the charts I posted as a basis for a starting point. Published recipes like those in the Marianskis' book or web site are superior references. Maybe some of the posters here with much more experience will chime in.
Last edited by jcflorida on Fri Apr 06, 2018 20:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jcflorida » Fri Apr 06, 2018 20:00

Kijek wrote:what is it made using EXCEL or is there a program or what?
The charts are "snipping tool" grabs from EXCEL charts (2000 version of EXCEL, so not exactly modern). There are freeby programs out there like Open Office that offer similar capabilities.
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Post by Kijek » Fri Apr 06, 2018 20:27

Thanks for the info, now I have a place to start
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Post by Lonster » Fri Apr 06, 2018 20:52

jcflorida wrote:
Lonster wrote: Based on your charts, I assume that a good first start would be to ferment . . .
As has been discussed many places in this forum, there's probably as many variables in this process that effect acidity, flavor, color, etc. as there are posters here. I'm very new to this, so I would not take the charts I posted as a basis for a starting point. .
Believe me, I've tried to read them all. The more I read the more confused I get. So I figured I would just jump in. Really just hoping to understand what is the preferred "target" pH and are the same sugar ratios of t-SPX the same for B-LC-007? There is a lot of recipes that use t-SPX.
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Post by cajuneric » Fri Apr 13, 2018 15:17

Ok so here's an update on my end.

2 days ago i made a batch of Genoa and Cremona Salami following SM recipe.

Here is it as he writes it:

Genoa
lean pork trimmings (ham, butt)400 g
beef (chuck)400 g
pork back fat or fat trimmings200 g
Ingredients per 1000g (1 kg) of meat

salt 28 g
Cure #2 2.5 g
dextrose (glucose), 0.2%
sugar, 0.3%
white pepper 3.0 g
garlic powder 1.0 g
OR fresh garlic 3.5 g
T-SPX culture 0.12 g (I used BLC 007 at .022%)

For this recipe I dropped the drxtrose and the sugar down to .2% each and everythhing else stayed the same. I fermented at 68F and 88% humidity and this was my results at 29 hours.


Image



The Cremona used a touch of Red wine here is the recipe

Lean pork (shoulder) 700 g

Back fat 300 g

Ingredients per 1000g (1 kg) of meat
Salt 28 g
Cure #2 2.5 g
Pepper 2.0 g
Black peppercorns 2.0 g
Dextrose 3.0 g
Sugar 3.0 g
Garlic, smashed 7.0 g
Red wine 5 ml
T-SPX culture 0.12 g (I used Blc 007 at .022%)

I also reduced the dextrose and the sugar to .2% each and fermented at 68F in 85% (basically the genoa and cremona were fermenting side by side) This one took 32 hours (a few hours longer to get to 5.18ph

Here's my question.

Am I putting too much BLC007 in at the manufactures recommended quantities? I use .022%

Is there too much sugar at .2% dextrose and .2% sugar

Is it still too warm at 68%F

I'd love to see a 48 or even 72 hour ferment but I'm feeling that this isn;t a slow ferment culture... Am I wrong

I love the fact that I was able to hone in the paramiters without overshooting it like I've been dpoing latley

eric
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Post by Bob K » Fri Apr 13, 2018 15:38

cajuneric wrote:I'd love to see a 48 or even 72 hour ferment but I'm feeling that this isn;t a slow ferment culture... Am I wrong
Absolutely not

From CHRHansen:

B-LC-007 is a meat culture for production of fermented sausages with a fast acidification. The culture ensures a reliable acidification, a strong flavor development,good stable color and has strong antagonistic properties against Listeria Monocytogenes . The yeast adds to the flavor development

Product info Sheet
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vflz67q60oapk ... 7.pdf?dl=0

For a 42-72 hour slow ferment use T-SPX


It was Craft Butchers Pantry that stated it was a replacement for and made obsolete T-SPX....and a lot of folks that believed it and almost all had problems errr issues.
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Post by cajuneric » Fri Apr 13, 2018 15:46

Oh Good. I though I was crazy.... (Still may be)




So whats the reccomended ferment time on BLC?
I see the temp ranges from 50f to 80f (80 being optimal)
Is TSPX better for flavor and color development?
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