Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

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Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Scogar » Fri Jan 17, 2020 16:49

I put a loin into a brine yesterday, making Chuckwagon's Canadian Bacon http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.ph ... 3f5#p28207 but I just realized that I forgot to inject it. I have no ability to do so now since I will be away. I have it submerged at 38° F and expected to do so for the 5 days. Can I simply let it rest for sufficient time and soak it in fresh water a little longer to back off the salt when the time comes. I'll look up the time needed but I'm thinking of the no of days per inch of thickness rule...

thanks
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by redzed » Fri Jan 17, 2020 19:29

In most instances 5 days should be enough to cure a pork loin in 5 days. As to the salt and soaking, it depends on what percentage you used, The recipe calls for a cup of salt per gallon. That does not tell us the weight. And as to the instructions to cook the loin at 200F for seven hours, if you do that you will have a dry hard piece of meat. Smoke the loin for three hours at a temp of 140-150, then finish by poaching to an internal temp of 145.
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Scogar » Fri Jan 17, 2020 19:58

Thanks redzed...another reason to not try to do so many things at the same time prior to leaving on a short trip!!!!

I didn't like Chuckwagon's recipe originally because nothing was weighed. So about a week ago I started going down the rabbit holes about wet brines and read all that Butterbean posted as well as others. I likely will be using the same two brine strengths Butterbean uses in the future and learn what they do as he says. No reason to not learn from those who are in the know...but this time I said "well the argument is that the brine and the cure could be thought of as flavorings since the final product will be cooked and thus doesn't need to be at the 200 ppm level." And I know Chuckwagon was one of the greats (sadly he passed before I found this site). But to be safe(r) on the salt I used my densest I had on hand which was a sea salt instead of my coarse kosher.

Worse part is that I didn't realize he had two versions of this Canadian bacon and of course I linked to the wrong one in the above post. The one I actually used was where he only added 1/2 cup of salt not a full cup. Here's the one I used from the recipe archive http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=4906. My intent was to pull in 5 days....I may let it go to six since the salt may be low, soak it in fresh water, slice off a piece and taste. Dry it with paper towels and roll it in butcher's pepper and let it rest wrapped in saran until the following weekend at which time I would smoke it/poach it to 145.

I reckon the cure #1 is correct based on calculators even if the white salt may be low...I guess I'll look for the spots inside to see if it really needed injection. I hate that I always seem to do one thing wrong every batch. :roll: but I guess it gives me a way to improve each time around.
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Butterbean » Sat Jan 18, 2020 01:02

Sounds like you need to embrace equilibrium curing. Not only is it good for the wayward traveller but those who forget stuff like myself.
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Bob K » Sat Jan 18, 2020 14:39

I would second Butterbean, with EQ curing you have a large window of weeks after the minimum time curing to finish. It's also easy to convert brined recipes
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Agoracritus » Sat Jan 18, 2020 17:44

I concur with Butterbean and Bob K, EQ is the best method to achieve precise salt content in whole muscle meat curing.

I still use liquid brines for odd jobs, like salting salmon “scraps” for smoked salmon bellies, or brining chicken hearts, etc...but otherwise I just use the equilibrium method. With EQ, the target salt content is as simple as figuring out the percentage.

If you want to “brine” a pork loin, for example, all you need to do is salt it with the target % (by weight), wrap/bag it up, and put it in the fridge for a few days. (I usually go with a minimum of 4 days). At first, the salt will draw out moisture from the meat (which is why you’ll want to keep it wrapped securely, to avoid making a mess), and then the salt/brine will naturally go back into the meat through osmosis until an equilibrium is reached. At this point, the meat will be brined and ready for whatever you want to make it into, like Canadian bacon.

Like Bob K pointed out, one of the bonuses of this method is that it doesn’t have to be timed precisely. A few days or a few weeks won’t really matter.
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Scogar » Sat Jan 18, 2020 21:12

Interesting...I have been only EQ curing with bacon and anything else I do. I wanted to understand the two levels of brine that BB suggests, i.e., "pick a brine strength and get to know how it works". That was the goal because the next thing to add to a brine is a deboned shoulder for buckboard bacon. I like EQ brining under all earlier circumstances and I think I'll rely on it mostly but do want to get a handle on wet brining too. Since I couldn't dial in the wet brine this time I thought the Chuckwagon recipe would be fine for a start...Oh well! So the experiments will likely continue, I just have to learn how to stay out of my own way now. :lol:

thanks all
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Agoracritus » Sun Jan 19, 2020 04:32

Just a little more food for thought:

You can also do a basic EQ liquid brine, you just need to factor in the volume of water as well as the volume/weight of the meat.

The main advantage of using this method is that the thickness of the meat and the brining time don’t need to be factored precisely. It works basically the same for something as small as gizzards or as large as a whole turkey.

My rule of thumb is 50% meat, and 50% brine. If I want to brine some chicken hearts (for example), I take the total weight of the hearts and convert the weight to volume. This is fairly easy because the density of meat and water are close to being equal. A pound of meat is basically equal to 2 cups of water by weight and volume.

I like the 50/50 method because you only have to factor equal parts salt. If you want the meat to have 2% salt, then all you have to do is make the brine 4% dissolved salt, and give it 2-4 days in the fridge to equalize.

Most brining/marinating methods and recipes use a stronger brine, and take less time than EQ methods, but for me, that just creates too many variables.
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Bob K » Sun Jan 19, 2020 16:40

Agoracritus wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 17:44
If you want to “brine” a pork loin, for example, all you need to do is salt it with the target % (by weight), wrap/bag it up, and put it in the fridge for a few days. (I usually go with a minimum of 4 days). ....... At this point, the meat will be brined and ready for whatever you want to make it into, like Canadian bacon

Are you also curing or just brining? 2-4 days isn't really enough time to EQ cure a loin, 10-14 days minimum.
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Agoracritus » Mon Jan 20, 2020 22:33

Bob K wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 16:40
Are you also curing or just brining? 2-4 days isn't really enough time to EQ cure a loin, 10-14 days minimum.
I only use liquid brines for brining/salting, and pretty much only for meats that are going to be smoked and/or cooked or dehydrated (like jerky). Sometimes I also use the EQ method for “dry brining”, but for “curing” whole muscle meat, I only use the EQ method (with the appropriate curing salt).

The only pork loins I’ve cured were for Lomo/Lonzino. (I didn’t think Canadian Bacon really needed to be fully cured, since it’s basically cooked before it gets sliced up, like Redzed’s method. But I’ve never actually made Canadian Bacon, so I’m not really sure about the details.)

The Lonzino I’ve made a few times from pork loins was only EQ cured for 5-7 days (in the fridge) before netting and hanging it in my curing room. That seemed to be plenty of time for the salt and cure to completely penetrate the meat evenly. (Isn’t that all that really matters with the EQ part of curing, or am I missing something? I’m not questioning your expertise, just a little bit confused why It would 10-14 days minimum to reach an equilibrium between the salt/cure, meat and moisture content.)
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Butterbean » Tue Jan 21, 2020 01:20

Agoracritus wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 22:33
Bob K wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 16:40
Are you also curing or just brining? 2-4 days isn't really enough time to EQ cure a loin, 10-14 days minimum.
I only use liquid brines for brining/salting, and pretty much only for meats that are going to be smoked and/or cooked or dehydrated (like jerky). Sometimes I also use the EQ method for “dry brining”, but for “curing” whole muscle meat, I only use the EQ method (with the appropriate curing salt).

The only pork loins I’ve cured were for Lomo/Lonzino. (I didn’t think Canadian Bacon really needed to be fully cured, since it’s basically cooked before it gets sliced up, like Redzed’s method. But I’ve never actually made Canadian Bacon, so I’m not really sure about the details.)

The Lonzino I’ve made a few times from pork loins was only EQ cured for 5-7 days (in the fridge) before netting and hanging it in my curing room. That seemed to be plenty of time for the salt and cure to completely penetrate the meat evenly. (Isn’t that all that really matters with the EQ part of curing, or am I missing something? I’m not questioning your expertise, just a little bit confused why It would 10-14 days minimum to reach an equilibrium between the salt/cure, meat and moisture content.)
One difference I think I see here is with your Lonzino it is being hung which would allow the salt more time to equalise evenly during this period whereas Canadian bacon normally wouldn't get this same treatment and a longer "cure" time would be needed. Just my thoughts. I don't know.
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Scogar » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:23

I'm not sure my "experiment" will help, but I am pulling the loin from the brine tomorrow and soaking it for a bit in fresh water before I slice and taste. It is only 1/2 cup of sea salt and 3 tblsp of cure #1 in 1 gal H20. After I smoke it, cool it, and cut it. I'll take pics of the inside to see if the cure made it all the way to the center with 6 days in the brine. Should be smoked this weekend
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Bob K » Tue Jan 21, 2020 18:05

Agoracritus wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 22:33
The Lonzino I’ve made a few times from pork loins was only EQ cured for 5-7 days (in the fridge) before netting and hanging it in my curing room. That seemed to be plenty of time for the salt and cure to completely penetrate the meat evenly. (Isn’t that all that really matters with the EQ part of curing, or am I missing something? I’m not questioning your expertise, just a little bit confused why It would 10-14 days minimum to reach an equilibrium between the salt/cure, meat and moisture content.)
This link may help you on curing times, you are just not going to get an EQ (dry Rub) cure in 1 weeks time on a loin. Salt may penetrate the meat block but it will will be much saltier on the exterior than the interior. It need time to equalize.
https://meat.tamu.edu/ansc-307-honors/meat-curing/

As Butterbean mentioned a dry cured product is different than one that will be cooked and finished immediately. Dry cured still has time to equalize.
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Bob K » Tue Jan 21, 2020 18:53

Scogar wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:23
It is only 1/2 cup of sea salt
Just curios why you cut the salt amount in half from the original recipe
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Re: Argghh Forgot to inject the meat

Post by Scogar » Tue Jan 21, 2020 19:44

Chuckwagon had two recipes. I put the second one in my second post. It wasnt until you referred to the onecup that I realized the first link was to a different recipe
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